So it is my “Opinion†that the explosion of the Smallmouths in the last 6 or so years has possibly put a dent in the Walleye population? Like I posted in my trip report our numbers have dropped significantly in the 3 years and im wondering if the Eyes are slowly on their way out?
Anyone agree, disagree? Just wondering what others think?
Maybe its just a big coincidence? The numbers are the numbers though. I cant see our Walleye fishing skills gettings worse after fishing that lake for 15+ years and the slot limit should have improved things you would think? I remember having nights we would catch 50+ Walleye in two hours and a slow night was 20-30 fish. Now we are lucky if we catch 20-25 all day.
Thoughts and comments welcomed. Feel free to disagree. This is just my opinion.
Thanks all.
Pete
@PETERBFLY We have not seen a drop in our walleye numbers, yet. But as stated in your trip report we primarily jig fish with slip bobbers not trolling.
But it is hard to argue with your numbers. What is also strange is that the bass are not in the lower parts of the lake yet. If you talk to anyone who fishes down south they have never caught a bass.
Here are a few interesting articles that support your theory that I hope is not coming true:
https://dnr.wi.gov/wnrmag/2010/06/fishery.htm
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1577/M04-203.1
https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/columnists/paul-smith/2018/06/30/can-walleye-populations-rebound-if-bass-and-panfish-reduced/738077002/
Maybe we need to start keeping the bass when we catch them to help the walleye out!
Thanks very much BigChief for the referenced documents.
My understanding after reading those references is that large mouth bass are major predators for walleye - not the small mouth bass that dwell in Lake Kipawa.
Jay
I would be surprised with a lake the size of Kip that they would do any real damage. We visited Rainy Lake 2 years ago, it is known for its smallie fishery. Let me tell you, the walleye fishing on that lake is INCREDIBLE!!!
What does more damage, is anglers not knowing how to properly handle fish they are releasing and gill netting.
First off I'm no expert but , am only expressing my opinion . To my knowledge walleye , smallies and especially largemouth (not sure there are any in Kipawa) prefer different water temps . On a second note there are many many example lakes in my home Province of Ontario where bass and walleyes thrive in the same waters . Having a cottage on Lake Erie I can attest to that .Although Erie , being a great lake , is much much larger than Kipawa it is ,at its deepest 1/2 the depth of Kipawa .In Erie the bass ,both smallmouth and large mouth , and walleye populations are thriving . I cant see a problem . Many lake ecosystems thrive with bass , , trout ,walleye , pike and musky .All finding their own niche and thermocline . All predate on each others fry to some extent
You cant rule it out. Since the bass exploded on the scene, we have been paying closer attention to our stats and the Walleye seem to be the only numbers that have drastically dropped. Perhaps its the bass eating the baitfish and taking food out of the Walleyes mouths? Could be that also? I should pull out our stats from 2012-2018 to show everyone. We go from around 200 give or take to 97. It is a progressive decline also.
Example:
2012 we had 200
2013 we had 199
2014 we had 198
2015 we had 176
2016 we had 157
2017 we had 136
2018 we had 97
See the decline. Our numbers should have been going up due to the slot and also one member being a more productve fisherman now that he is 15 years old. When he was 8 in 2012 he hardly contributed.
The numbers are for fun and nothing else. We dont fish for stats, but its a source of entertainment for us and also great to reference every year to see how we do. We also document spots, weather, water temps and sizes of fish.
If you want to blame the weather this year lets say, last year our numbers should have been way lower due to the fact that it rained all week and water temps never climbed above 63 degrees. Why werent the Walleye still shallow then?
Something to keep an eye on in my opinion. See what happens in the next few years. Perhaps the bass have overstayed their welcome lol? I would have no problems with eliminating them from that lake if push came to shove.
Thanks for all the feedback. Its great to hear other experienced opionions.
Well...I know one thing...when we fished the NE part of the lake back in 2004-2005 there were no smallies up there. Then, seemingly all of a sudden, there were. Always makes me wonder how the got "in there".
And the mystery continues.....
I will stop your wondering right now. They stocked that lake with the smallmouths sometime within the last 10 years give or take. No question. Been fishing Kipawa since 2000 and the first bass we caught/noticed was in 2011/2012
They are a lot of fun to catch, but not why we come to Canada. Walleye was what drew us up there.
Quote from: PETERBFLY on July 06, 2018, 07:29:48 PM
They stocked that lake with the smallmouths sometime within the last 10 years give or take. No question.
Who is "they"?
First trip to Kipawa was 1997. Owner Gerry of 3 Seasons Camp (before Reggie) when asked about smallmouth, told us, "there are no smallmouth in Kipawa." I thought that strange but believed him. Gerry has lived in that area his entire life and knows more about that lake than all of us. Gerry is no spring chicken. There is dirt and Gerry. Dirt was born in the morning and Gerry in the afternoon. Why would he lie anyways? Several years later reports of a few smallmouth were being caught at and near TBL. What does that tell you? That's where they were introduced. Since then the smallmouth population has exploded and are definitely migrating south. Gerry did not like what was happening, I'll let it go at that.
Back in 2011 son Brian and I were fishing at a spot I nicknamed "Big Fish Point." It's a very early spot , gotta be there at daybreak. If you catch a walleye there it's 3 lbs. or better. Son Brian got a seven pounder one morning. General Rhybak knows where that spot is. All of a sudden, the locator lit up with fish. There were clouds of bait fish. and lots of bigger fish. I have a underwater camera and lowered it and was shocked at what I saw. A giant school of smallmouth! They were everywhere. Everywhere that camera pointed were smallmouth! Never seen anything like it. So, in my opinion. the smallmouth could be considered an invasive specie to Kipawa and no one knows for sure what they will do to that eco system. Maybe nothing. We'll just have to wait and see. They are fun to catch!
C.C.
They're there now... Doesn't matter much how they got there. They are fun to catch and I want to know where that spot is! 😆😳😆
Anyone ever 'target' them in the fall?
They're no where near my end of the lake yet. I'm kinda hopping they never make it there. However I wouldn't mind making a day trip to catch some. I haven't caught one since I left Georgian Bay 7 yrs ago.
My son, then 14, caught a 21' smallie and was the best fish he has caught since we have been going to TBL and he has a knack for catching the big fish on our trips. We have a nice replica hanging on our wall in the mancave.
I have to imagine that the walleye and smallies can coexist since many fishing shows feature fishing for both in the same lakes. In addition, here is an interesting abstract from the Indinana DNR:
Interestingly, they found no clear or consistent relationship between walleye and smallmouth bass, suggesting that these two species are much more likely to be found together with much less competition between them, perhaps not as surprising given that they're both considered cool-water, mesotrophic creatures.
Quote from: BH on July 07, 2018, 09:48:39 PM
I have to imagine that the walleye and smallies can coexist since many fishing shows feature fishing for both in the same lakes. In addition, here is an interesting abstract from the Indinana DNR:
Interestingly, they found no clear or consistent relationship between walleye and smallmouth bass, suggesting that these two species are much more likely to be found together with much less competition between them, perhaps not as surprising given that they're both considered cool-water, mesotrophic creatures.
@BH these do not seem to be like normal smallies. Most people say smallies are harder to catch then largemouth. Doesn't seem to be the case with these ones. They are almost like piranha. I actually hate to catch them now as most completely swallow the jig and I usually have to cut 10ft of line off from being messed up so bad.
@CaptainCrappie maybe TBL introduced them to play to another fisherman segment or because the walleye fishing was not as good up that end.
The rumor is that they were not intentionally introduced.
One of the back lakes containing smallmouth flooded over one year and the bass were washed into Kipawa and have spread.
Something we have to live with now.
Enjoy the extra species.
My 2 cents: Took my wife to Kip for 1st time in 2003 (took my son a few years earlier for 1 time) and have returned every year with exception of 2017 and I agree with PETERBFLY. Was told no smallies however one morning my wife caught one about 9 inches at what was called sand point (Taggart Bays go to spot). Outfitters at that time said no smallies but over the next few years we picked up smallies more consistently in that end of the lake. By 07 or 08 we were catching them in the sanctuary and I believe the outfitters by than knew and admitted they were there.
Have not kept track but do know our numbers on eyes have consistently dropped since than. We do not target them but catch them right with the eyes so they are competing.
I don't see the forage base that other lakes like erie and southern Ontario have so have to wonder what they are eating to attain the size (and numbers) they are now. Have never seen a MINISTRY opinion but have to wonder why they were so worried about introduced species they banned use of live minnows and later frozen certified disease free minnows from use but don't seem to care about the intro of bass and now have seasons and limits on them.
Even tho the Bass are fun and great fighters We go to Kip strictly for the eyes and trout and miss being able to catch the trout by the minnow method so the increased restrictions as well as reduced eye numbers are making me reevaluate for future trips North.(we have no problem with the slots limits).
@RHYBAK that makes sense about a back lake spilling over. TBL's catch and release bass lake empties right into the main lake. So it could have easily overflowed and brought the bass in. And it could be continuing to do so when the rain is bad.
Or they could have been introduced from the bilge or livewell of a boat from the the outside??
As a lease owner, I recently received a pamphlet describing the various invasive species that could be brought in from other lakes..
They stressed to clean out your hull, disinfect your bilge and live wells, anchor ropes, tie down ropes etc. Wash everything down with bleach...
Those of you who bring their boat to Kipawa, take head of these warnings.
We target the smallies in the fall at home and it is amazing when they are gorging themselves. Mid summer you can go out and get a normal bag of 5 smallies and be about 13-17lbs. Same lake 2-3 months later and that bag turns into 22-26lbs. The big ones are cruising all over the place.
They are definitely a very fun fish to catch no doubt about it, but not why we go to Kipawa to fish. When the Bass exploded on the scene I remember having a discussion regarding how they may affect other species in the lake. With that being said we have been paying close attention to our numbers and the walleye are the only numbers that have cut in half over the last five years. Is it a big coincidence? I’ve been fishing long enough to know that it is probably the bass affecfting the Walleye population. Slot limit in place for three years now and we are catching 50% less than what we use to. Common sense tells me Kipawa is slowly turning into a Smallmouth Bass lake and the Walleye will become the bye catch in the next 10 years. For those of you go fish the southern half of the lake where the bass have not made it yet be patient. They’re coming in full force
Quote from: PETERBFLY on July 10, 2018, 07:10:29 PM
Slot limit in place for three years now and we are catching 50% less than what we use to. Common sense tells me Kipawa is slowly turning into a Smallmouth Bass lake and the Walleye will become the bye catch in the next 10 years. For those of you go fish the southern half of the lake where the bass have not made it yet be patient. They’re coming in full force
I don't know...Kipawa and the surrounding area is an awfully big system...I can't imagine the whole thing being overrun by a single species, at least in our lifetime. And as mentioned there are plenty of great walleye/smallie lakes all over the US and Canada. Maybe you're walleye success decline over the past few years is just a cycle. We have great years and some not-so-great years...you're just stringing a few not-so-great years together. "Catching" success doesn't seem to be a complaint out of others fishing the NE arm. And not unlike how the walleye are not that plentiful down by the town of Kipawa, maybe they're just not that plentiful up around there anymore.
Most people on this board know my opinion and it always stirs things up, but I think over-harvest is a bigger issue than the smallmouth bass...like keeping fish is a just reward and evidence of your prowess as an angler.
That was more of a whisking than a simple stir... ::)
15...
T-bone
Good points and thanks for biting your tongue .
Eat Bass
Release walleye
We are the catch and release group, so its not us filling the stringers. We usually keep around a dozen Walleye every year and thats it. Maybe that is also a contributing factor? More fisherman on the lake taking too many out and most of the bass are returned after being caught?
Maybe someone needs to post their best bass recipes on here. I used to eat bass a long time ago. Deep fried.
Haven't seen one in Hunter's lake at all. Nor heard of one caught.
Maybe Wayne or the Alwaki crew can chime in.
I've heard of a few caught around Sunnyside...Mattie got a small one last year...probably see more this year. If we do you will know.
And I think Mr. Rhybak is just being nice to me today....I know he (any others) love to eat fresh walleye up there and I really have no issue with that. That equates to each angler keeping one 'eye per day. That I fear is not the case. I remember when TBL used to do a weekly fish fry for their guests...had to go through 40-50 fish per event. It's a nice little treat and cool marketing tool, but needless expense on the resource. I think they stopped doing that several years back though...thankfully.
It's seems simple to me....keep it if YOU are going to eat it that day...if not, throw it back.
Still 15....
Probably a repeat thought or question but does anybody know if the Natives are netting the lake.?
They do on Nippising.
It is there right.
How about in Quebec???????
It is my understanding that is practiced on Lac Kipawa.
Just practiced or do they have it down pat?
If that's the case ,stop blaming the darn bass for the catch decline.
Bitch about the netting and not the Bass.
I've often wondered about this. Logically I can't see how the increased competition for some of the same forage base can't affect the Walleye population, depending on how much overlap there is I guess. Perch for sure. Regardless, it's a new aggressive, schooling and prolific species that has been introduced into a pretty big watershed. It's going to have an effect on the ecosystem as a whole, no doubt. Bottom line is that they're now in Kipawa for good. Usually mother nature takes care of things in the long run and hopefully things will balance out.
A few of weeks ago I saw a post about the bass in Kipawa by someone on another site who had been going up to the north end for many years and she said the Walleye fishing had gone downhill so much in the last few years that they were seriously considering going somewhere else.
As for native netting, they've always done that, so there's nothing new there.
So from what I can gather from the odd post here and there, lets say the bass first showed up in Y2K for sake of argument. So TBL outpost to Corbeau for example is around 20 miles. TBL to Laniel is a good 25 miles. So where ever they started from it looks like a good mile per year progress. Sunnyside to Alwaki is 2 miles, another 7 or so to Edwards Narrows. Smallies don't mind current, they could work their way up Turtle Chute even.
On a bright note they are fun to catch, and out of deep, cold water environments they tend to be much better eating with no worms. And for those not into Lakers it can provide some good midday pursuits.
The more I think about it now, I think the Pike population could well flourish too with a brand new forage base to feed on. Big Pike in summer prefer deep cool water structure and they will quickly learn to target these roaming schools of smallies. So that could be a positive.
Cheers
T-Bone hit the nail on the head (as much as we like to think we are all skilled anglers) some good years and some bad years (And sometimes bad years are strung together).
Netting has been present on the lake (more on the southern and eastern end) for years but nothing like Nippissing.
Average size has gone up since the slot limit and also quantities over the past 5 years.
I think one needs to concentrate more on fluctuating water levels, temperature patterns along with thermoclines, and heat waves never seen in the past. If you track this information you will understand your catch results a little closer.
Also, current possession limits will not hurt this fisher but as T-Bone said how fish does one really need to have a feast.
I don't know S from shine-ola about the ecology of the lake and the impact that keeping fish to eat has on it, but I would hope the Ministry would. From my limited knowledge standpoint, I think, it seems they do with the slot and creel limits. Take me for example, last year I was on lake Kipawa for 14 days and took home a total of 12 fish "my legal creel limit". That equates to me removing .66 fish per day from Kipawa. I could be very wrong, but that's not a slaughter or excessive act. The excess is being kept in check with the Ministry's laws. I have always partly justify my hunting and fishing with the fact that I field dress, clean and process, smoke/cook and eat all of my own game, including bear, elk, deer and fish. My mother told me at a very young age "you kill it, you eat it" when I killed my first squirrel.
A couple of years ago I was on beach vacation with my cousin from the big city, she had been out all day and came back to the house to find that while she was gone, I'd been out surf fishing and had caught some fish, brought them back and fried them up for lunch. She looked at me with total astonishment and said "you can do that?". Point being, I think having at least a small relationship with where our food actually comes from "Not Magically at the store" and how it is dispatched is a good thing in my simple mind.
Getting back to the subject at hand, my guess is, there no way that the introduction of a new species into the lake, that it can't have impact on the others. Both possibly for good and for the bad.
Quote from: Hodgey1 on July 12, 2018, 01:02:30 PM
My mother told me at a very young age "you kill it, you eat it" when I killed my first squirrel.
Well that explains a lot... ;D :o :P
Creel limits...I'll give you creel limits in a couple weeks.... ;D
One observation that I must share.
During my week every spot we went to produced a Bass or two.
We filtered out those bass and the rest of the time , we were catching Walleye.
It's not like the spots are over run with bass (yet).
We brought home 16 really nice Bass in our week .
Just a fraction of the amount of walleye we caught.
Another observation was that all of the bass still had eggs in them.
Are they spawning properly.
In the entire week, we only saw three or four Bass that were way to small to keep.
I guess we should have fed them to the Gulls.
Are they considered an invasive species on Kipawa?
Should we be kill the ones we don't want.
Are they considered an invasive species on Kipawa?
Should we be kill the ones we don't want.
I think so. Keep your limit in bass and toss back the walleye except for a meal or two.
Quote from: T-Bone on July 13, 2018, 09:19:29 AM
Well that explains a lot... ;D :o :P
Yupper ;) :D