My only experience lake trout fishing has been trolling with downriggers in Lake Erie many years ago and fly fishing for Steelhead in the tributaries.
Can Lake Trout "in Kipawa" be caught jigging? T Bone pointed me to an area around Alwaki's Outpost where we were marking a butt ton of fish suspended at 52' in 58' of water. I know this would take some heavier rod and reel, line and so forth but might be a nice midweek change up? Some guys I meet from Tennessee told me they used to jig for Lakers at Kipawa but stopped because they didn't like eating them? he described some sort of flasher jig thing but I didn't take good enough mental notes.
What would I need to jig for Lakers at Kipawa?
Hey Hodgey,
I don't jig for lakers, although I have heard it is possible and it has been done... there is an old thread where I let somebody know how I approach trolling with lead core line spooled on trolling rods in large Penn reels.
It is not that expensive to setup specific lake trout trolling rods ($30 rod, $50 to $70 for a cheap reel, $20 in lead core line, $23 gang-troll and then a $8 flashy spoon lure).
We caught 11 lakers in the boat this year, and lost probably another 4 or 5 and we even trolled across from Whispering Pines (outpost) on the far shore, in 70 feet to 120 feet of water (we adjusted how much line we had out according to the depth). This was honestly my first time lake trout trolling in that area and we had a very good 45 minutes (getting three in the boat about 11am to 11:45am, but then it shut down - even though we tried for an hour longer.
Good luck!
Greg
Hodgey,
Gregs set up sounds pretty good. Since I don't fish lake Kipawa I am sending PM so I only bore you.. ftd
I've done some drifting out on Kipawa , Basic set up with haring. We would start about 100m out from Miwapanee , Shut the motor off drop the bait to the bottom and bring it up about 5-10ft and drift along there . Normally getting a few closer to the green cabin north of where we started.
don't forget, no bait allowed anymore
I jig them, find them on sonar and drop down a white or smoke tube jig right onto them and they eat it. Just like ice fishing. Use a 3/8 or 1/2 jig head to get straight down on target.
I saw one a few weeks ago in 45 fow, drop tube and wham!! 25 inches... A wee short for the bbq.
Trolling has its purpose but my theory is why drive over them when you know where they are and target them.
I'm learning that bringing the trout up from summer time depth will more than likely kill them. If that's the case, Im going to skip targeting lake trout.
Quote from: Hodgey1 on August 14, 2017, 08:33:43 PM
I'm learning that bringing the trout up from summer time depth will more than likely kill them. If that's the case, Im going to skip targeting lake trout.
Would be something to look into. I know bringing up slow helps them, same as smallmouth bass from the deep, we fizz smallies bladders and back no problem.
I use light tackle/line, so I'm in no rush to bring them up. Not dragging them.
Can you elaborate on fizzing bladders?
Quote from: Hodgey1 on August 14, 2017, 08:59:29 PM
Can you elaborate on fizzing bladders?
Cole Vardy when he was still young!
Good video.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gD7_5WoEQSc
Every event in the fall we fizz a lot of fish.
An excerpt from the Department of Environmental Conservation of the State of NY.....
Special Rules for Taking Trout and Salmon in Deep Water
A moderate steady retrieve will give the fish time to adjust to changes in water pressure. Trout and salmon caught in many cold water lakes are caught in very deep water. Bringing them to the surface is particularly stressful because the fish experiences a substantial reduction in water pressure. At 100 feet deep the pressure per inch is four times greater than at the surface. In this situation it is important not to "horse in" the fish but to bring it to the surface slowly but steadily.
Fish brought up from deep water may need "burping." Burping is a method of expelling excess air from the fish's swim bladder. The drop in pressure causes the swim bladder to expand, increasing the fish's buoyancy and causing it to float belly up. Left in this condition, many fish die as a result of the surface water's warm temperatures or attacks by predators. But in trout and salmon, the swim bladder is connected to the esophagus, making it possible to squeeze excess air out. To do so, hold the fish gently on its side and gently, but firmly, squeeze the belly from the vent toward the head. You will be able to hear the burp as air is expelled from the bladder. Do not squeeze the head and gill area, as that could damage vital organs.
Stimulate the fish to dive deeply. Once burped, the fish should be able to dive down to the deep cold water. But it may require further assistance. Two methods have proved useful in stimulating fish to dive. One is to vigorously thrust the fish, head first, into the water. The slap of the water, and the plunge downward usually stimulates the fish to swim down. Another technique is the "release when recovered" method. Hold the fish gently at the middle of its body with its head pointed downward at a 45 degree angle. In that position a gentle side-to-side motion (or slow speed of the boat if trolling) can be used to move water into the mouth and over the gills. As the fish recovers, it will begin to kick, and slide out of your hand. When its tail passes through your hand, give the tail a quick squeeze. This seems to stimulate the fish's swimming action, causing to dive with more vigor. Remember, the idea is not to catch the tail, but to compress it as it slides through your hand.
When is burping and additional handling needed? Let the fish tell you that. Start by handling the fish as little as possible, i.e., flip it off the hook with needle-nosed pliers. If it is able to recover and returns to the depths, you have avoid a lot of handling. If it is unable to dive, the head first plunge may be enough or burping and the "release when recovered" technique may be required.
Based on fisherman observations landlocked salmon taken from 30 feet deep can be flipped off the hook will do fine. Salmon from 60 feet deep may need some help to recover. Lake trout seem to be more sensitive than salmon. A lake trout brought up from 60 feet will probably need to be burped and given some help to dive back to deep water.
Interesting topic; couple thoughts...
I like Canuck's approach...see them...drop down...get a strike or move on. Problem there is I can't imagine a scenario where I'm just slowly cruising around the lake looking for a fish on my LCD then act when I see one. I don't think there are that many lake trout (comparatively) in Kipawa. Feels like if you were to vacate the entire city of Toronto of all people, drop in 10 people somewhere in the city, then set out on foot to go look for them. There has to be a better way. Trolling = No Thanks (more boring than watching grass grow). Fizzing or Burping? Really? I thought we were going fishing...not performing biological procedures on fish we catch. Well...I guess that's why I don't even waste my time thinking about targeting lakers anymore. Couple of the boys tried it this year...got a great big zero...but they said it was a nice boat ride.
We used to use herring to jig for lakers...caught several way back when. But like Mr. Rhybak stated that's a no-no now.
Speaking of...welcome back Mr. Rhybak.
I always have the intention and equipment to jig but we never do. We load the boat with food and drink for the whole afternoon and troll for the lake trout. We cook on the front deck of the boat while only stopping to catch fish. I use downriggers and dipsey divers with lighter line. As for T-bones observation of driving around slowly and coming across them it's a lot easier than that. We have fished at Kipawa for Lakers for so many years now that I know where I can consistently go and mark fish to catch. Not saying that when you mark them you always catch them but we do catch 25-35 a year trolling. I agree it is not for everyone but if I plan a local fishing trip in the summer I will go out for lakers. Once the fall comes then I go back out for the walleye. Guys that I know that jig for them do use white tube jigs.
Interestingly, it's my understanding some of the best lake trout fishing in the entire Lac Kipawa system is within 3 miles of where we stay...some of it within 300 feet from where we stay. Still doesn't seem worth it to me. Ozzy's success is built upon true expertise...and I can appreciate that. I certainly don't pretend to have it though and at this point in my life I guess I'm not interested in chasing it. I go up to Kipawa to catch fish...for sure...but in all honesty, about 4-5 hours a day in the boat is enough for me. The days of 12-hour boat benders are over. If a laker bites my line while I'm fishing for 'eyes or pike, I'll take it. But I never say never...so who knows...maybe next year I'll stick a big bloated laker...then have to burp it like a baby. :P
T-Bone - such a negative view!! LOL.... kidding...
Here is how I look at it... my first trip to Kipawa, (12 or 13 years ago now) a buddy showed me how to lake trout troll as I described above. I have looked forward to trolling each and every year - why? because it is different and I find it relaxing. It breaks up the week to go explore the lake and find a nice deep channel and troll for lakers (but as you have seen from my trip reports, doing this in unfamiliar water has made us snag up and have lost 4 gang trolls the last 2 years - at almost $30 a pop, that adds up!!) You get hot? stop and swim! Enjoy a cold beverage! Listen to some music, tell stores with your buddies in the boat, etc. I honestly can't imagine a trip to Kipawa without lake trout trolling - it would seem like something was missing if I came home without getting a couple of lake trout in the boat. This year, some days, we only did 2 or 3 hours of lake trout trolling - while other days we did 5 or 6 hours - and I enjoyed it all.
"Because it is different..." - another perspective... I like going out on the Ottawa River (near where I live) with new people every year and learn different approaches to fishing different species. I also like going out on the river and trying completely new and different tackle and ways to fish - I enjoy it all. I think this (maybe artificially?) makes me a better fishermen and more rounded and knowledgeable fishermen. This weekend, I went on the river with a guy I've talked about going fishing with for years - but we just never did it - until Sunday morning - and he showed me some new things in his gear, lures and approach (he was targeting muskies - but he got a few pike on the same gear). I came home at 1pm knowing some things I didn't know at 6:30am.
Key message: It's all good!
Greg
Great in put from all.
If pulling in a Laker from depth, isn't a death sentence for the fish, then I might give it a try next year. LimaChar article from NY was interesting, I could see myself squeezing some excess air and letting the fish stabilize, then giving it the head first dump, but I'm completely out on the fizzing.
I'm right now just fantasizing and dreaming "already" about next year. I have always loved trout fishing, but only from the stand point of a ultra light tackle in a stream or fly fishing. I may take a extra pole/reel next year and spend a few hours some day jigging for a Laker.
I'm with you, I'd rather slice my eyeballs then troll.
I don't go to target lakers, I find them to easy... find a hole around central lake, drift or cruise over, see them on sonar mark a waypoint and return and drop down with 1/2oz white tube jig and hold on.
Most guys have sonars/ gps and trolling motor on front. Using them all together increases your catch rate.
I caught them in 40 FOW of water recently, not always super deep. Opening few weeks you catch them shallow just trolling or casting minnow hardbaits.
We've caught several lakers, almost always on a jig when we were looking for walleye.
Only once on a lure.
I prefer the taste of walleye, so I don't target lakers. But if I snag one that doesn't swim away, I'll keep it. My wife likes their flavor, so it's ok.
@RHYBAK , it is good to see you on the board again.
Welcome back from me.
Interesting. I'm going to come at this from a different viewpoint. Of all the times I/we/gang visited Kipawa ever since the 80's Lakers were always the primary fish for us to catch. Pickerel were in most waters around here so they weren't a priority at all, specially the first years. For instance one year I won the largest Pickerel of the week between 8 of us by casting off the main dock after dark on our last night there lol. Some worms in a ziplock and a few jigs, a lawnchair, a couple of beers and I was laughing. The flood lights were on still and I could see lots of minnows in the water. So I kept 3 between 14 and 17" and made $35 lol. Over the many years except for evenings and into dark easily 85% of my daytime fishing on the water has been spent trolling a #1 or perhaps a #77 on the other line big hammer gang troll on copper or leadcore with a live or dead minnow on a leader behind it. We often had decent fishing, sometimes real good, getting close to double digits. Even the downrigger guys would drag gang trolls. I did try a pink lady one year and caught one using a mooselook. I sure don't find trolling boring at all, as I love to explore and learn the waters, that's how you find the most productive runs on certain days, and there are certainly no end to them that's for sure. That's also how to find those small bits of structure that you'd never know were there, then come back and try an evening fish closer to shore.
I'm sure some of you remember that 22lb laker Carl had on the wall in the main lodge at Alwaki. He caught that dragging a large Canoe spoon right off the end of the island in 50 fow. There is just so much beauty structure for lakers in that central area between Beauvin and Edward's narrows that you never have to travel far to find them. The first run I learned way back was the cliff face just before Corbeau as you come out of the shortcut. No sonar back then. The rule was 8 colors out and far enough off shore that you just couldn't read the wooden sign that was part way up the cliff. Damned if I remember the name on that sign though. Anyone else here know? Then you could continue and troll the hub itself and keep right down the mainland or cut across and troll the side of Corbeau island. Great runs.
As for the Lake trout air sac deep water discussion, it's never really been been an issue ever for me when reeling in a 5 ft long, 7 blade gang troll and a fish too, while maintaining a steady trolling speed for the other line in the water. It's not a fast process, specially with 10+ colours out or over 225ft of copper. I won't say I never heard the odd burp, but it's rare in the summer. I always figured that the gradual depth change over the reeling in time helped them from having problems with their bladder. Of course many would be released and they always swam straight down so I'm happy with that. If they're small and not to be kept then I'll just try a boatside release and they're gone. Even ice fishing in deeper waters it's usually not a quick process either, which I think does give them more time to acclimatize if you don't rush it.
Canuckbass I really chuckled with your trolling comment. lol It's a good thing there are so many different methods of catching the same fish, no matter what the species. Folks have their favorites and that's a good thing, it sure would be boring if everyone fished the same.
Hodgey if you want to try for Greys you should check out the fish seeker by davis instruments. http://www.davisnet.com/product/fish-seeker-clear/ You can troll spoons, spinners or stickbaits(not deep divers) for lakers or walleye at the depth you choose, all with mono/flouro and a casting rig. Basspro carry them.
Cheers
Quote from: smitty55 on August 15, 2017, 11:56:54 PM
Hodgey if you want to try for Greys you should check out the fish seeker by davis instruments. http://www.davisnet.com/product/fish-seeker-clear/ You can troll spoons, spinners or stickbaits(not deep divers) for lakers or walleye at the depth you choose, all with mono/flouro and a casting rig. Basspro carry them.
I enjoyed reading that, very interesting.
I looked at the "Fish Seeker" it appears to be like a dippsy diver type of device? When you mention "225' of copper" Is the Fish seeker attached to a copper line, then your regular fishing line attached to a release? For give me if this is a stupid question. ???
Quote from: Hodgey1 on August 16, 2017, 07:20:14 AM
Quote from: smitty55 on August 15, 2017, 11:56:54 PM
Hodgey if you want to try for Greys you should check out the fish seeker by davis instruments. http://www.davisnet.com/product/fish-seeker-clear/ You can troll spoons, spinners or stickbaits(not deep divers) for lakers or walleye at the depth you choose, all with mono/flouro and a casting rig. Basspro carry them.
I enjoyed reading that, very interesting.
I looked at the "Fish Seeker" it appears to be like a dippsy diver type of device? When you mention "225' of copper" Is the Fish seeker attached to a copper line, then your regular fishing line attached to a release? For give me if this is a stupid question. ???
The fish seeker is just used with mono and a single lure behind. All the settings on the chart for depth control is based on 10lb test line. The copper I spoke of is just a substitute for leadcore to get down deeper with the gang troll.
Cheers
@smitty55 I agree!!
I know one day I'll love trolling but not right now. I'm a structure/ pattern type of guy. I won't even drop a line if I don't see a fish on the sonar, rather keep searching... basically just like hunting.
Hodgey here's the chart that comes with the Fish Seeker. One thing you would need though is either a line counter reel or one of those line counters that mounts on the rod. Or I guess you could measure out the 80 and 100' lengths and mark your line. For speed it would depend on the lure used to get the best action.
(http://i.imgur.com/vvTFXM9.jpg?1) (http://imgur.com/vvTFXM9)
Cheers
Quote from: smitty55 on August 17, 2017, 08:56:57 PM
Hodgey here's the chart that comes with the Fish Seeker.
Very interesting, I guess I've been out of fishing too long. That's a pretty cool device, I think years ago, I used a dipsy diver, this looks way better. If I recall, the dipsy would trip, once a fish was hooked?