We weren't able to get on the road back home from Kipawa until 10:30a Saturday morning. The drive back was pretty painless until getting off the 407 at around Hamilton. It was around 3:30ish and the traffic bcame horrendous...... I know, I know, deal with it right?
I've been looking at the map and wondering if for next year, I could take the 407 to 403 to 8 to 20 all the way back to the boarder and bypass the craziness of the QEW? Anyone try it/know that route, thoughts? Even if it didn't save any time, as long as it was moving and not 80mph to dead stop, crawl for 20 minutes then 80 to dead stop again......
Same here Hodgey....we were 2-hours in front of you and the same deal. That stretch of the QEW has been a total CF for as long back as I can remember. I have no idea why as there's rarely an accident (wasn't this year either), or even a car pulled-over/breakdown, or any disruptive construction. Just starts and stops for no reason at all.
Anyone with experience or knowledge that lives in that area may provide some insights, but like you....there's got to be a better way around that. Lost at least 1.5 hours between Hamilton and St. Catherines....it's like 30 miles...took almost 2-hours.
I thought it was maybe due to the time of day, but what you described is exactly what we dealt with.
Like I wrote before, if rt 20 was a viable option, I'd rather move along at slow steady pace than what I experienced on the way home. We had to have added an additional hour or 2 more to our trip on the QEW. I must say, well worth it if that's the dues to pay for a week at Kipawa :D but if I could eliminate that ???
Hi Guys
I live in St. Catharines and work in Hamilton and inlaws live in Hamilton, so do that commute daily and some weekends too. Usually not bad, some slow downs. But afternoons on weekends in the summer are the worst time heading Niagara direction on the QEW. Tourists heading to Niagara and U.S. if it was last weekend, that's a Saturday afternoon of a long weekend which is the very worst time all year. You could not pick a worse time if you tried, LOL. And everybody is in a hurry getting nowhere, so you see some stupid things at times.
407 > 403 > 8 - the problem is from the 403, 8 is a main street going through Hamilton, I would not recommend it, not going to save you any time to get to 20. Do not take the service roads that run parallel to QEW, major delays at each intersection.
This may not save you time but will save your brakes and stress levels. I would get off QEW at Fruitland Rd, turn right (south) on Fruitland and go to Hwy 8. Head west on 8, its a small 2 lane country hwy, not fast but much more relaxing. Some stops in a few small towns. At Vineland take 24 south to 20 and head east on 20 to QEW in Niagara Falls. Also, you may want to check border wait times, often if you take 420 to Rainbow bridge its faster than Peace bridge and Lewiston/Queenston. Plus perfect view of the both falls.
My inlaws live close to hwy 8, and if I have to head home during that period I take 8 all the way to St. Catharines, probably in the end I'd get home the same time, but I get home relaxed and enjoy the country drive.
I dont think there is a faster alternative, just a more relaxing alternative.
One more option now that I think of it, get off at Centennial Pkwy (20), its a city street there so a little slow at first, head to either 8 east or continue south until you turn east for 20 heading east. This saves you from the worst party of the QEW traffic jam which is between Nicola Tesla (formerly Burlington Street) and the merger from the Red Hill valley parkway which is just before Fruitland rd. As with the above option, probably not faster, but you are moving.
Thank you
@RoK; that is the information that I was wondering about. I like your answers with alternative routing.
Great information Rok! I think I will try one of your routes coming back next year on a Saturday afternoon.
One other suggestion, if you have nothing to do on a Saturday afternoon of a long weekend. Sat Sept 2 is the last long weekend of the summer. Try Google maps/traffic, you will see with live traffic conditions how long alternative routes are. Who knows, maybe Hwy 403 to 8 or something entirely different is faster. As least it eliminates guessing.
p.s. I did the 407 QEW to St. Catharines drive yesterday (Sunday) afternoon coming home form the cottage. that stretch of hwy = 30 minutes. Toronto bound was a parking lot with all the tourists heading back.
Quote from: RoK on August 14, 2017, 08:47:37 AM
I did the 407 QEW to St. Catharines drive yesterday (Sunday) afternoon coming home form the cottage. that stretch of hwy = 30 minutes. Toronto bound was a parking lot with all the tourists heading back.
So, on a Sunday afternoon, QEW flow from 407 towards Niagara are wasn't bad? Hmm, so is a Saturday afternoon usually the issue heading toward the States? If it is, I'm going to try your Rt 20 or RT 8 option next year.
on a regular summer weekend heading U.S. bound, it's bad Sat mid-morning til eve, and Sun mid-morn & early afternoon, mid Sun afternoon tide changes to Toronto bound. Long weekend, Sun & Sat are same and Mon is like a typical Sun.
Nothing like going from the tranquility of Kipawa to sitting in stop and go traffic on a highway in just a few hours.
Quote from: RoK on August 14, 2017, 01:40:13 PM
Nothing like going from the tranquility of Kipawa to sitting in stop and go traffic on a highway in just a few hours.
Ain't that the truth >:(
Of the options you laid out as alternatives, what is your best suggestion for a bypass of the QEW? 8 to 20?
I know one thing; last year for us getting from Barrie to the 407 was a major pain in the rear, but after that it was easy as can be; all the way to the Peace Bridge border crossing. It was our easiest year for that end.
Now for " the rest of the story "; we drove that on Sunday, July 3rd. The last day of a Canadian long weekend (Canada Day weekend), as well as in a long US weekend (4th of July).
I know, Not a normal day; the 400 and the QEW was all heading towards Toronto and very few of us were heading towards the US.
You guys are making my 2.5 hour drive to Kipawa feel like a walk in the park!!
Great for an overnight trip up, took my dad up for his first trip Saturday, he loved it!
Seemed like 2 hours to go from Hamilton to St Catherine's :( a week ago Saturday.
Hi Hodgey
I did a quick check on Google maps. Under normal traffic from the 407 & QEW to Peace Bridge :
Via QEW entire route = 1 h 2 mins
Hwy 8 to hwy 20 to QEW 1 h 49 mins
Hwy 20 to QEW 1 h 39 mins
If as you say it took 2 hours to get to St. Catharines, then another 30+ minutes to peace bridge, total 2.5+ hours, the alternates are quicker and less stressful.
The Hwy 20 route is the quickest, and knowing you have a long drive every minute counts. Here is my recommendation. From Hwy 407 take QEW and exit at Centennial Parkway. If you need a rest stop, there’s gas stations, restaurants & coffee shops all along it until you turn left on Hwy 20 eastbound. From off ramp turn right (southbound) and take Centennial pkwy for about 15 minutes and then you will need to turn left onto Hwy 20 east. See the Google maps hyperlink I added, note the little jog at Thorold down to McLeod Rd to QEW.
There are countless variations but I think keep it simple in an unfamiliar place, so this is about the easiest.
https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/Queen+Elizabeth+Way+%26+ON-407,+Burlington,+ON/Peace+Bridge,+1+Peace+Bridge,+Buffalo,+NY+14213,+United+States/@43.0645613,-79.5102198,11z/data=!4m29!4m28!1m20!1m1!1s0x882b6201f5ff3133:0x6e0730c19a4d211c!2m2!1d-79.8308136!2d43.3423875!3m4!1m2!1d-79.7569578!2d43.1687972!3s0x882c97f204557e33:0xf4791d26302ec533!3m4!1m2!1d-79.6142685!2d43.1247909!3s0x882cbba77366181f:0x96cdf6bd8fbad2ee!3m4!1m2!1d-79.4072397!2d43.0430443!3s0x882cb4c2464601b3:0x211a14722175a274!1m5!1m1!1s0x89d3130ab7c0d809:0xf8662354cb148c30!2m2!1d-78.9060093!2d42.9069465!3e0
This recommendation is based solely on you returning on a Saturday hitting the area in the afternoon.
Regards, ROK
This might be totally out of the way for you guys - but why not skip Toronto all together and head to another crossing like the 1000 islands crossing or Ogdensburg - then up thru Ottawa and onto Kipawa - I live near Ottawa and would miss Toronto on a summer weekend any chance I get - the traffic just keeps getting worse and worse there.
Good luck
Smitty
ya ya, thats the ticket!! Come and visit Jay and Smitty and myself in Ottawa!!! BBQ and beer at my house! ;D :D ;D
Quote from: RoK on August 15, 2017, 10:13:24 AM
This recommendation is based solely on you returning on a Saturday hitting the area in the afternoon.
Your recommendation and work are much appreciated. Also, you will be held harmless no matter what the outcome! :D
Quote from: Greg on August 15, 2017, 12:18:03 PM
ya ya, thats the ticket!! Come and visit Jay and Smitty and myself in Ottawa!!! BBQ and beer at my house! ;D :D ;D
Hmmm. ??? That may make the additional 200 mile worth while! :D
We got off late saturday morning heading home because of the rain and closing the cabin up, and a stop at webers. We were a few hours behind you on Saturday and it's actually the first time I haven't had a rough trip of stop and go traffic on the Q.E.W. getting home at 1 am. Sucked but we actually made better than usual time on the trip home with our stops.
Brad
Quote from: RoK on August 15, 2017, 10:13:24 AM
If as you say it took 2 hours to get to St. Catharines, then another 30+ minutes to peace bridge, total 2.5+ hours, the alternates are quicker and less stressful.
The Hwy 20 route is the quickest, and knowing you have a long drive every minute counts. Here is my recommendation. From Hwy 407 take QEW and exit at Centennial Parkway. If you need a rest stop, there’s gas stations, restaurants & coffee shops all along it until you turn left on Hwy 20 eastbound. From off ramp turn right (southbound) and take Centennial pkwy for about 15 minutes and then you will need to turn left onto Hwy 20 east. See the Google maps hyperlink I added, note the little jog at Thorold down to McLeod Rd to QEW.
There are countless variations but I think keep it simple in an unfamiliar place, so this is about the easiest.
https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/Queen+Elizabeth+Way+%26+ON-407,+Burlington,+ON/Peace+Bridge,+1+Peace+Bridge,+Buffalo,+NY+14213,+United+States/@43.0645613,-79.5102198,11z/data=!4m29!4m28!1m20!1m1!1s0x882b6201f5ff3133:0x6e0730c19a4d211c!2m2!1d-79.8308136!2d43.3423875!3m4!1m2!1d-79.7569578!2d43.1687972!3s0x882c97f204557e33:0xf4791d26302ec533!3m4!1m2!1d-79.6142685!2d43.1247909!3s0x882cbba77366181f:0x96cdf6bd8fbad2ee!3m4!1m2!1d-79.4072397!2d43.0430443!3s0x882cb4c2464601b3:0x211a14722175a274!1m5!1m1!1s0x89d3130ab7c0d809:0xf8662354cb148c30!2m2!1d-78.9060093!2d42.9069465!3e0
Hi
@RoK Its been a while since I've thought about our trip back to the states on a Saturday afternoon. So I've reviewed your earlier recommendations and wanted to just check and see if your thoughts were still the same as a potential bypass option, for the QEW back-ups? We will be traveling back from Kipawa toward Nagara falls on Saturday August 4th
On a side note, We have made a few trips here in the states in the last few months using a phone app called Waze that has done rerouting around traffic and such, so I may see what that says also coming back?
P.S. You will be held harmless in regards to any advice ;D
Hey Hodgey
Funny, I was just thinking about what option you would try. Again you are going home on a Sat of a long weekend so absolutely the worst time for that stretch of QEW.
if it was me, I'd try the hwy 20 option below. I would get in the right hand lane on the Skyway and stay there until you exit at Centennial Pkwy (Hwy 20).
I have Waze, but don't use it often. You have lots of time as you get closer so the passenger can play with Waze and Google maps to see the travel times for the various options.
At least you are moving and not trapped in traffic with little escape routes, and if there is an accident on the QEW, look out.
Good luck, looking forward to your trip report. 329 days!
Ron
Thanks Ron, I would much rather be traveling a slower back road with similar ETA's than what I experienced last Aug 5th. It's not that I'm completely traffic-fobic, but last years QEW sucked. I'm a seasoned traveler "Oakland-DC-NJ-Chicago" and have learned that slower, longer routes at times can save brakes and worn nerves. I will have my co-pilot monitor waze and google maps before the Route 20 alternate and decide real time.
Three weeks from today, I will be headed to a week in heaven! Four weeks and 1 day from now I will be on the dreaded ride back to reality...………………….. :-[
Scanning all replies quickly I don't think this suggestion was mentioned if so My bad . Living in the Hammer I would suggest 407 or QEW to 403 .Don't head Niagara bound 403 but keep right heading up the escarpment . At the top of the escarpment heading east on the Lincoln Alexander Parkway across the top of Hamilton .The "Linc" hooks up to 20 Hwy at the end by a short stretch of Mud St . Highway 20 eventually gets you directly to Lundy's Lane in Niagara Falls . Any suggestion of QEW to 20 Hwy or QEW to the Red Hill Expressway leads to certain traffic chaos at the best of times
Quote from: pike mike on July 06, 2018, 02:38:57 PMI would suggest 407 or QEW to 403 .Don't head Niagara bound 403 but keep right heading up the escarpment . At the top of the escarpment heading east on the Lincoln Alexander Parkway across the top of Hamilton .The "Linc" hooks up to 20 Hwy at the end by a short stretch of Mud St . Highway 20 eventually gets you directly to Lundy's Lane in Niagara Falls
So Mike, take ETR to 403 to Lincoln A Parkway to 20 toward One of the US BRIDGE crossing near Buffalo?
Quote from: pike mike on July 06, 2018, 02:38:57 PMAny suggestion of QEW to 20 Hwy or QEW to the Red Hill Expressway leads to certain traffic chaos at the best of times
Not sure where this is or exactly what you mean or are you suggesting that taking 20 to avoid QEW backups heading toward US is a bad idea?
Just took the quick Google drive on this route via 403 to the Linc to 20. Seems reasonable enough. Only real "tie-ups" I see are in the little towns like Smithville, Fonthill...etc. and closer you get to QEW in Niagara Falls area. I'll watch my GPS for the green/yellow/red indicator to decide which route would be best when we hit the end of the 407. That QEW from Hamiton to Niagara is really the only part of the trip that I don't look forward to...
Hodgey1 -Sorry for the confusion .
Yes take Hwy 20 towards a Buffalo bound bridge.
The Linc to Hwy20 connection is aok but , connecting to Hwy20 from the QEW or Red Hill Expressway is always always a traffic nightmare
Quote from: pike mike on July 09, 2018, 12:56:36 PM
Hodgey1 -Sorry for the confusion .
Yes take Hwy 20 towards a Buffalo bound bridge.
The Linc to Hwy20 connection is aok but , connecting to Hwy20 from the QEW or Red Hill Expressway is always always a traffic nightmare
So Mike, am I going to be in a traffic nightmare connecting to Hwy 20 if I come into it via the Lincoln to Mud Street? Or does that route skirt some of the nightmare?
I'm think he's saying take the Linc off the 403 to AVOID the mess you may hit if you continue on the QEW to the RHV Expressway then to 20.
So, I'm wondering if there is a day of the week the traffic between toronto and fort erie is at its lightest? I just drove it sunday july 8 mid-afternoon and the traffic was terrible. Can't imagine why, the weekend is over doesn't seem like folks from toronto would be driving to niagara falls sunday afternoon at 3 pm the weekend is over? I have flexibility in my schedule I'm wondering if friday would be better? Time would be the same, we usually hit the QEW at around 3pm .
Also, going up(going north) do you guys have a preferred day? Saturdays seem brutal during the day.
I just can't understand the traffic patterns. It seems like the weekend traffic is worse than weekdays (at least mid-day week days from 10 am- 2 pm).
Also, can anyone explain the 407 fees? If you don't have a transponder It seems there is a camera fee, account fee and mileage fee. I can't understand it I drove it once one way from hamilton to 400 it seem to be $50
We have found heading north on Sunday is the best. QEW seems lighter and 407 is empty and heading north the majority are driving south. 407 fee is about $50 but it sure beats the old way of into Toronto to hit 400 north. I will pay it. Pricey but worth it. We just returned on Friday the 6th. Left Dumoine at 7 , Kipawa by 9 and North Bay a little past 10 for gas and Tim's and hit the QEW about 2? and it was very crowded but broke up and moved along fairly well only a few exits past the merger from 407. As a side note the worst experience ever was when the Pope was in Toronto years ago.That has nothing to do with the Pope himself by the way. They had roads closed and I have never seen so many cars on the 400 and QEW.
Thanks for the input.
Thanks
@RoK and
@pike mike for all your help. We opted to take the bypass suggestion coming home from Kipawa this past Saturday and it worked great. We took the 407 to the 403 to Lincoln Alexander to Mud to 20 to 27 to Weland out to the QEW. We experience only a small section of the 403 initially that was slow, but that was it. Once on 20 we moved well the entire way to the QEW. The proof was in the pudding, T-Bones group passed us i think around Barrie and they went the QEW the whole way. They were 15-20 minutes or more ahead of Us and we ended up getting to the Peace Bridge before them.
So my unscientific results say the bypass saves at least 15 minutes and major stress reduction of the stop and go of the QEW on a busy Saturday afternoon. I will use it again in the future.
Glad to hear Hodgey. Even if its the same amount of time, much more relaxing IMO.
Ron
Hodgey1,
Where did you pick up 27 off of 20?
What we do when travelling to and from Kipawa is we plan our drive time in the middle of the night. Smooth sailing all the way.
Quote from: T on July 01, 2019, 05:02:51 AM
Hodgey1,
Where did you pick up 27 off of 20?
I picked it up just North of Wellandport
(http://i67.tinypic.com/1z2du2b.jpg)
Quote from: Rico on July 01, 2019, 07:29:57 AM
What we do when travelling to and from Kipawa is we plan our drive time in the middle of the night. Smooth sailing all the way.
Its funny you mention that Rico, we are planning on leaving extra early this year to avoid some of the traffic on the 400, my biggest problem is on the way back...……
Does anyone know how early you would have to hit the 400 heading North on a Friday to avoid the crazy traffic? My plan right now is to come off the ETR and hit the 400 North bound at around 9:30-10:00am, is that early enough?
Hodgey1,
Thank you! We have the same problems coming South. I live about an 1.5 hrs south of you. We have found that if you can get to 400 by 9-9:30 am we don't have many problems. Anything after that, it steadily gets worse.
Quote from: Hodgey1 on July 01, 2019, 12:35:29 PM
Quote from: Rico on July 01, 2019, 07:29:57 AM
What we do when travelling to and from Kipawa is we plan our drive time in the middle of the night. Smooth sailing all the way.
Its funny you mention that Rico, we are planning on leaving extra early this year to avoid some of the traffic on the 400, my biggest problem is on the way back...……
Does anyone know how early you would have to hit the 400 heading North on a Friday to avoid the crazy traffic? My plan right now is to come off the ETR and hit the 400 North bound at around 9:30-10:00am, is that early enough?
Hodgey1
Heading north we hit the 400 at around 7:00 am. Coming home we get on the 407 a little earlier if possible. Living in southern Ontario our travel time is 6 hours each way. I hope this helps.
I don't miss that drive one bit.
Traffic ages you.....!
Quote from: limacharley on July 03, 2019, 12:23:04 PM
Traffic ages you.....!
Lima, I can't agree more!
Where I live, traffic is nearly non-existent "good jobs also :( though" Every time I go anywhere it seems like traffic is insane.
- Washington DC, avoid at all costs
- NJ Garden State Parkway on any summer day
- Bay Bridge after two beers and heading to San Fran
- 400 Heading North everytime I go to Kipawa
- QEW heading toward Buffalo Ny every trip back from Kip
- Did I mention DC
- Everywhere I've traveled on the Gulf Coast of Florida
Traffic ages me.....!
Hodgey…
In my younger days, if a I was working an afternoon shift and we were planning
a drive up to see family, I'd pack the car and leave @ 00:15 hours just to avoid the
401 and 400 silliness. The wife and kids were asleep before I left Sarnia city limits...
I used to do the same for nearly all trips...….. I'm now getting O-L-D and night driving is killing my eyes due to the glare. I just came home last sunday from a 12hr exhausting trip of which 3 hrs were in the dark and I tried a yellow sun glass at night that seemed to help. I need to find a pair that's a little less dark and I think I might be back to enjoying a night drive.