Sadly, as of today at 1330 hours, Quebec's Main Rules for Sport Fishing are still not yet available on line.
I telephoned Quebec authorities this afternoon and was told that the new rules would be available in a few more days. There is some information available in french at http://www.mffp.gouv.qc.ca/publications/enligne/faune/reglementation-peche/regles-generales/limites-prises-possession-taille.asp
Regarding walleye, it says that last seasons rules will apply until new main rules are released.
Regarding lake trout, it looks like you'll be able to keep two lake trout greater than 65 centimeters (25.6 inches).
If anyone has more accurate information, I would appreciate hearing about it.
Jay
TY for your efforts, Jay.
Lake trout 65cm plus and one trout and whole
Walleye you can keep 37 cm to 53 cm and it applys for yellow only 6 limits and filet the new way portfolio or whole i hope this helps Reggie
Thanks very much Reggie. Your post suggests that there will be different rules for blue/black walleye. Can you please clarify.
Jay
My understanding is the same as Reggie's as confirmed by Chalet Diane a couple of days ago. I think all the walleye are classified the same
Yellow walleye or walleye 37-53 cm and no slots for black walleye or sauger that dont get to be bigger then 37 cm anyway Regards Reggie
For those that are technical, cm. translates as follows.
Multiply the cm. by .3937 to get your inches.
65cm = 25 9/16"
37cm = 14 9/16"
53cm = 20 7/8"
I'm sure somebody will find a flaw in my calculations but that is my translation
Let just day to be safe 25 3/4 lake troute and 14 3/4 to 20 3/4 for walleye and that way everyone is safe cheers
Another question I've seen discussed...How are the fish to be cleaned for transport?
This really doesn't impact what I do, but my friends will want to know. To round off in safe and simple terms:
- License holder can keep walleye between 15" and 20", but only 6 in possession at any given time...everything else goes back, right?
I can't imagine anyone can visually tell the genetic difference between a yellow, or blue, or black walleye. What if you're color blind? Well...another reason just to throw them all back, I guess. ???
Quote from: NortonJoe on April 05, 2016, 09:47:42 AM
Another question I've seen discussed...How are the fish to be cleaned for transport?
Joe
Here is the link showing how to clean the fish for transport
It is in french ,but the visual explains it all.
http://www.aventure-chasse-peche-video.com/video/2576/Comment-faire-des-filets-de-dor%C3%A9-en-portefeuille-Plan-de-gestion-du-dor%C3%A9-au-Qu%C3%A9bec
Maybe a dumb question, but what's the difference in the walleye and what kind do we catch in Kipawa?
Quote from: Mr3seasonscamp on April 04, 2016, 09:28:58 PM
Yellow walleye or walleye 37-53 cm and no slots for black walleye or sauger that dont get to be bigger then 37 cm anyway Regards Reggie
If the new regulations state that new slot limits for walleye apply only to yellow walleye and not to blue/black walleye or sauger, it’s going to create a lot of confusion. Why? The walleye we refer to as blue/black walleye are not genetically different from yellow walleye. Consequently, regarding adherence to fishing regulations, IMHO, we should treat all walleye caught as yellow walleye (concur with Riverrat). During my 14 years fishing Lake Kipawa, I have caught several blue/black walleye in the 5 to 7 pound range.
Consider the following
Two University of Wisconsin researchers have shown that a strain of blue-pigmented walleye does exist, but they are actually the common yellow walleye. W.F. Schaefer and M.H. Schmitz of University of Wisconsin’s Dept. of Biology have identified a blue pigment, sandercyanin, which is found in certain walleye in Canada, usually from above 45 degrees north latitude (Lake Erie is roughly 41 degrees north). And occurrences of blue pigmentation in walleye appear to be spreading south. The researchers describe these blue walleye as being an albino form which lack the yellow pigment characteristic of normal yellow walleye. The blue pigment is not found in the skin but instead is part of the fish's mucous.
Jay
Quote from: Mr3seasonscamp on April 04, 2016, 09:28:58 PM
Yellow walleye or walleye 37-53 cm and no slots for black walleye or sauger that dont get to be bigger then 37 cm anyway Regards Reggie
Some additional clarification - compliments of Mr3seasonscamp
Reggie telephoned me at noon today to clarify his post. For Reggie, black walleye and sauger are synonymous terms. Reggie's clarification completely negates the rationale for my previous post. Reggie went on to say that all walleye are yellow walleye. Thanks Reggie.
Jay
I kind of thought that's what I said. All the walleyes are classified the same. They are all yellow walleyes. Although some show a blue look they are yellow Walleyes. The actual Blue Walleye is extinct.
So the slot limit has arrived eh.... that's too bad... good for the health of the lake, but was nice to only have the "bigger than 12"" rule.... now 15"-20" only... ok... thanks all for the info... I found the majority of my catch last year were 14-15" .. maybe this new slot will allow more fish to grow into the 16-18" range....
For the most part, I agree with the slot (and rules in general)
I've learned to realize the powers that make these rules & regulations are only trying to create a self-sustaining ecosystem so the fishery can be enjoyed for future generations. And who among us can argue with that end goal, right?...
What I don't like about the slot or the rules is that they don't apply to everyone and no one really actively enforces them. (sure there are inspections of coolers and vehicles but at that point, it's too late, the fish is dead... where are the patrols on the lakes during prime fishing times?...I've never seen one on any lake in Canada).
I also don't like that they're consistent across all lakes in a specific region when not all lakes have the same ecosystem or the same fishing pressure on them but whatever, I get it... standardization is simpler to " regulate and enforce"....
At the end of the day they don't really affect me because I try to release as many fish as possible. For me it's about the challenge of the hunt, not the glory of the feast...
I will likely be corrected on this one but somebody once told me that if by chance the lake really takes a turn to the good and the Yellow Walleye population really improves, this slot would be lifted.
WillageD
I don't see your reasoning that this will help you in seeing more 16-18 inch fish.
These will be the targeted keeper size now.
There will be less in that zone if everybody is keeping them.
What you should see in the future is more and more mature breeder fish in the 5 to 12 pound class.
darn, you might even see record breaking 15-16 pound fish.
Am I missing something with your remark?
Dog, in the last 5 years I've had 2 encounters with the game cops at Kipawa. They were polite, very professional, and they check everything, sometimes even your cabin. One year my son left his license at the cabin. They could have fined him, but told us to go get it and find them so he could show it to them. A couple years ago they got some guy with bass out of season and illegal bait. Nasty fine for him, so they are out there. The boats they use look like any other fisherman's boat, so it's hard to see them coming. I'm glad they are there to make sure the rules are being followed. I think we'll see a lot more of them with these new regs. Oarin.
I am a proponent of slot sizes like this. I'd even like to see a lower possession limit. It certainly can't hurt the fishery and will hopefully help.
Personally, I normally only keep Walleye between 14" to 17". There's only been a few places where I struggled to get Walleye <18", but that never bothered me ;). I like eating pike too, so I can almost always count on a few 30"+ Pike to eat if I have bad luck with the Walleye.
As far as CO's go, it's such an odd thing. I've been in the middle of nowhere and they've flown in to check us. Never really understood that, it seems like an expensive use of limit $$ to check a handful of people.
Are there actually Sauger in Kipawa??
Funny I see the wardens on the lake almost every time I come up. I think they are really active on the lake. I have seen quite a few people caught on the lake
Quote from: RHYBAK on April 06, 2016, 03:38:35 PM
I will likely be corrected on this one but somebody once told me that if by chance the lake really takes a turn to the good and the Yellow Walleye population really improves, this slot would be lifted.
WillageD
I don't see your reasoning that this will help you in seeing more 16-18 inch fish.
These will be the targeted keeper size now.
There will be less in that zone if everybody is keeping them.
What you should see in the future is more and more mature breeder fish in the 5 to 12 pound class.
darn, you might even see record breaking 15-16 pound fish.
Am I missing something with your remark?
My rational on that is with the past regulations being "larger than 12"'s" anglers would harvest many 13 and 14" fish (which in my experience is that size bracket of the largest population of walleye in Kipawa).. so now with a slot in place with 15" being the minimum for a keeper, all of those 13 and 14" fish which would have previously been harvested, will hopefully be released and given another year of growth before they are caught and kept. Therefore 15,16 and 17" inch walleye now become the norm in the lake as opposed to the current 12-15" walleye I seem to see most regularly. I am no biologist- but that's just the way I hope it plays out! haha.... and your insight to a larger population of big fish in the lake would be fantastic!
This will be my wife and I's 15th year in a row to spend a week on Kipawa and of those years we seem to have been checked by the fisheries folks 7 or 8 times. Never had any problems on the stops once we could understand each other.
Sticking to the subject: I often wonder why Quebec authorities makes the rules so ambiguous and wait until the 11th hour to post. It seems this would be a problem for the outfitters since most people have to plan well in advance for this trip and anyone on the fence may just fall off if they were told "we think this will be the regulations but they can change anytime" and to try to research on the net to see any changes is frustrating to say the least.
My 2 cents on the "changes" we are hearing may be imposed: Not really any problems with the slot sizes since we mainly just like to catch vs keep but we also do enjoy a few eye meals. Lake trout: Only 1 per license now; Probably more disturbing to us since we really enjoy bringing a few home to smoke for the holiday gatherings and share with our friends trying to convince them they should take a Kipawa trip with us some year to enjoy the week and catch a few. My wife and fish sun up to sun down everyday while at the lake and in recent years have come to really enjoy a peaceful and relaxing afternoon anchored just sitting with a frozen minnow waiting on the trout (we are getting older so this method really helps us recharge) but it appears we will no longer be able to use frozen minnows? I am sure we will find another way to spend the afternoons maybe even anchor and see if the lakers will eat red meat but little things like this change as well as not really knowing what rule changes will occur are really making me second guess on if we will continue our annual trips or spend our time and money on new adventures. Our grandkids are nearing the age that a week of fishing on Kipawa may make a good trip for them so I am sure we will one day share this adventure with them and I only hope the new regs if imposed will result in making a good fishery even better.
Seems to me these new rules may partially be a way to make extra revenue for Quebec. A certain amount of people won't read the new rules,busted $$$. A certain amount ,not on purpose,won't clean the fish the new way,busted $$$. With the slot size your measurement may be a hair off,busted $$$ I look for a lot more stops both on the water and shore by the patrols !
@RHYBAK is it just my computer or is that fish cleaning link not bringing up the video? Thanks.
Quote from: NortonJoe on April 12, 2016, 08:56:24 AM
@RHYBAK is it just my computer or is that fish cleaning link not bringing up the video? Thanks.
@NortonJoe It just worked for me.
Maybe your software doesn't accept it?
http://www.aventure-chasse-peche-video.com/video/2576/Comment-faire-des-filets-de-dor%C3%A9-en-portefeuille-Plan-de-gestion-du-dor%C3%A9-au-Qu%C3%A9bec
Finally, Quebec's sport fishing main rules are available in English on line - see http://www.mffp.gouv.qc.ca/english/publications/online/wildlife/fishing-regulations/fishing-periods.asp
For those interested in fishing Lake Kipawa for walleye or lake trout:
For walleye, possession limit remains at 6 while length limit changes to a slot limit of 37 to 53 cm (14.6 to 20.9 inches).
For lake trout, possession limit is 1 while the minimum length limit has changed to 65 cm (25.59 inches).
Jay
Looks like if you link thru to zone 13 west, water boy exceptions, Kipawa reservoir and scroll on down to the zone exception only 1 lake trout on Kipawa Lake?
Thanks for the correction JLG. I noticed my error while doing some more reading this morning, When I came back to correct my post, you had already caught the error. Thanks again.
Jay
I was right yesssss
Jay: Like I said before regs are ambiguous and you really have to dig to insure you see all. I am curios if anyone knows what the measuring rule in Quebec is? I fish the flats in FL/gulf coast and they have slot limits for reds and sea trout and from what I seen there you need to squeeze the tail and measure from snout to tip of squeezed tail. This did make a difference this year as my brother caught a 26 and 3/4 inch red but when we squeezed the tail it was over 27 inches (slot is 18 to 27). If enforced to the letter of the law a 1/2 inch change due to misunderstanding the law would be over a CM and could prove costly if you keep fish close to the prescribed regs. I don't know the legal way (lay flat naturally or squeeze the tail) and in the case of lake trout wont matter to me as I will insure any kept are 26 or over but I am sure some folks will keep eyes right near the limits and from what I see it could make a difference both on the stringer as well as after filleted according to the pictures. Will be interesting to hear from anyone this year who gets stopped as to how closely their fish are measured, examined etc...
BTW - If I had my way we would measure the fish with beer cans (eyes have to be over 3 cans in length and no longer than 5 and trout have to be over 5 cans in length) LOL
I've been checked 3 or 4 times in my 10 years of visiting Kipawa - the game wardens had the "seamstress" (soft cloth) measuring tape and checked both frozen fillets and live fish very carefully. They placed the fish (or fillet) on a flat surface and leaned right over to put themselves 8 inches above their measuring tape, as if they were checking a piece of wood they just cut to fit into a very precise puzzle.
I can't see them changing their ways, every time was exactly the same and I would definitely expect this again this (and any) year.
Bottom line - no margin for error... I like your "round up" approach - 15 inches for eyes and 26 inches for trout.
Just an FYI to those commenting on the difference between a Yellow, Blue or Black Walleye. There is only one species of Walleye Sander vitreus vitreus in Kipawa there are several color variants (Yellow to Blue) but all the same species. Blue Walleye or Blue Pike were thought to be a subspecies Sander vitreus glaucus found only in Lake Erie and now believed to be extinct. I believe the 'Black' Walleye mentioned in one of the posts actually refers to Sauger Sander canadensis. There are no sauger in Kipawa so if you catch a Walleye in Kipawa, regardless of color the regulations apply.
I know some have mixed feelings regarding the regulation changes but as a grad student in Fisheries specializing in Walleye and recreational regulations I can assure you this regulation change is desperately needed for Kipawa and should improve the fishery over time. The Ministry Biologists are very informative and will provide you all their reports if requested (mind you they are only in French) with information that justifies why they have made these changes.
Most of my experience has been on one of the lakes in the ZEC that has had the tighter regulations. I see that was probably a test of these new regs. I have no issues with these, other than trying to figure out the new fillet methods but I'm sure our outfitter will set us straight.
I've been check a few times on the road. My only issue was the language barrier.
Quote from: cmoreau on April 12, 2016, 07:04:08 PMI know some have mixed feelings regarding the regulation changes but as a grad student in Fisheries specializing in Walleye and recreational regulations I can assure you this regulation change is desperately needed for Kipawa and should improve the fishery over time. The Ministry Biologists are very informative and will provide you all their reports if requested (mind you they are only in French) with information that justifies why they have made these changes.
Can I assume that you have obtained and perused these reports? If so, could you please provide a birds eye summary of the facts that justified these changes? Short of that, could you provide the titles of the reports that I should obtain? Thanks in advance.
Jay
I don't know if all this banter is to fill the void of a slowish banter season, but wow...a lot of debate about slivers of information. As you know, I really don't understand this side of the angling sport as I don't keep any fish caught and simply do it for the challenge and relaxation of it.
As an outsider looking in on this forensic analysis, I offer that maybe it would be absolutely best to error 1" on either side of the slot. I mean, really, don't you catch enough fish during the week to satisfy your appetite for fresh 'eyes from Kipawa? Or maybe like 10x that amount? Again, I recognize I'm not the voice of reason here as I don't understand why anyone would keep a fish, but to get down the the 1/4" error margin by squeezing a tail...worrying about officers (we get checked every year) and fillet techniques...or whether X cm = Y inches seems gratuitous and almost misplaced.
If I were someone on this site and reading this thread for the first time, I'd think the reason most of you go to Kipawa is to catch, keep, and eat fish. I'm pretty sure you can find fish for sale in most grocery stores...
There you go
@RHYBAK...THAT'S stirring the pot... ;D
106
Quote from: T-Bone on April 13, 2016, 01:26:00 PM
I don't know if all this banter is to fill the void of a slowish banter season, but wow...a lot of debate about slivers of information. As you know, I really don't understand this side of the angling sport as I don't keep any fish caught and simply do it for the challenge and relaxation of it.
As an outsider looking in on this forensic analysis, I offer that maybe it would be absolutely best to error 1" on either side of the slot. I mean, really, don't you catch enough fish during the week to satisfy your appetite for fresh 'eyes from Kipawa? Or maybe like 10x that amount? Again, I recognize I'm not the voice of reason here as I don't understand why anyone would keep a fish, but to get down the the 1/4" error margin by squeezing a tail...worrying about officers (we get checked every year) and fillet techniques...or whether X cm = Y inches seems gratuitous and almost misplaced.
If I were someone on this site and reading this thread for the first time, I'd think the reason most of you go to Kipawa is to catch, keep, and eat fish. I'm pretty sure you can find fish for sale in most grocery stores...
There you go @RHYBAK...THAT'S stirring the pot... ;D
106
Oh boy.
Did somebody not get their MARS bar this morning :)
Rant and stirring the pot Monday to Wednesday doesn't cut it.
We need new reading material on Thursdays and Fridays.
It gets boring sitting in my office with nothing new to look at. :)
As for keeping or not keeping. That is a personal call that nobody has any right to judge on.
That is why rules are put in place and if you are a strictly catch and release person, that is your call and keep your faith to yourself .
I'm don't mean you Todd, I just mean the C & R guys that try to preach their beliefs onto others.
WOW......65
I think it is important to know what the rules are since the reason for them are conservation based...I'll be the first to admit that we eat the fish we catch and release others. I don't see a problem with that at all.
Quote from: RHYBAK on April 13, 2016, 02:16:53 PM
As for keeping or not keeping. That is a personal call that nobody has any right to judge on.
That is why rules are put in place and if you are a strictly catch and release person, that is your call and keep your faith to yourself .
I'm don't mean you Todd, I just mean the C & R guys that try to preach their beliefs onto others.
WOW......65
Yeah...I could care less if you keep fish or don't keep them. Completely up to you. And if you like them, you should keep them to eat...I wouldn't begrudge you for that. But sheesh...this bit about dorsal fins and fillet techniques that must be used...why hassle?
T-Bone, didn't you say you don't like the taste of fish? Good reason to catch and release. As for buying walleye fillets to eat, they don't sell them here or anywhere in the states I travel to, and we have Wegmans markets here who carry about everything. I have absolutely no qualms about bringing home my 6 keepers. All the other eyes we catch are released. I also have no problem with the slots. We pretty much do that anyway. The new filleting requirement will be a challenge, but I'm sure we'll get through it.
(But sheesh...this bit about dorsal fins and fillet techniques that must be used...why hassle?)
Didn't mean to start a pissin contest but yea I'm bored this AM so will add some more bantor.
Thanks T-bone for adding some more ambiguity to my understanding of the law. I thought with my interpretation of the French video of proper filleting technique it was the pectoral fins that need to stay with the fillets but now wondering about dorsal fins. I guess it can go on and on but its no big deal as I know the outfitters will keep us straight on the interpretation of any change. I guess I am getting older and like my father years ago have reached the point where change is hard to understand and accept.
OK now I can go get my boat ready for a Erie trip - I fish the western basin for the spring jig bit. I recall on a past trip being trapped on land for a day due to the unexpected wind change anyone who regularly fishes Erie has experienced and while killing time walked into a fish house by Fisherman's Wharf in Port Clinton and if I remember correctly there were walleye fillets for sale there. My understanding was on the Canadian side commercial fisherman could net them and sell but US cannot so any eye fillets sold would come from Canada so it is possible to find some walleye fillets for sale but we have tried eye dinners in the local restaurants and they do not even come close to our own freshly caught eye dinners so lessoned learned is to eat the perch dinners now when in Erie country.
There are walleye filets available about half the time at the Giant Eagle in Hermitage pa.( near Sharon) but am sure they are Canadian. I also have rarely bought them except to make sure I had enough when having a fish fry for company. They would obviously be over the slot limits and just don't taste the same. Just had a conversation about buying "fresh " fish in our grocery stores .. most had to be frozen to get here and thawed at least once. Makes me think if buying fish, frozen may be better, but never tastes like they were swimming an hour ago.
Just booked our annual trip to Kipawa and thought I would log on to see what is up and certainly glad that I did.
Thanks very much to everyone who contributed the information to this topic.
I can't say that I'm surprised to see these changes. I certainly don't have any concerns other than putting the new marks on our fish ruler.
Looks like we won't be taking home very many lakers going forward. I hope that lake trout anglers are up to speed on fish handling techniques as most of what is caught will likely be under the 25.59" mark.
Something about Kipawa though.... I think we would still go even if you had to throw them all back.
Cheers!
According to this video made in 2011 (in french) the biologist does state that there are yellow and black walleye in western Quebec. He did not name any lakes though. It shows the distinction between the species...dorsal fin and tail. This video shows you how to fillet "en portefeuille".
http://panache.yourme.net/t11670-filet-doree-en-porte-feuille-gestion-filet-brochet
I was left to believe that if the Action Plan was released in 2011, the slot limit is only now getting applied to 13 east and west.
clear as mud ya?
Quote from: limacharley on April 14, 2016, 03:29:08 PM
According to this video made in 2011 (in french) the biologist does state that there are yellow and black walleye in western Quebec. He did not name any lakes though. It shows the distinction between the species...dorsal fin and tail. This video shows you how to fillet "en portefeuille".
http://panache.yourme.net/t11670-filet-doree-en-porte-feuille-gestion-filet-brochet
I was left to believe that if the Action Plan was released in 2011, the slot limit is only now getting applied to 13 east and west.
clear as mud ya?
I'm not sure if it was because I'm using an iPad to read this but that link bounced me around about a dozen sites and then tried to install some game.
T-Bone....One solution for your dilemma of cleaning fish properly.....get Marco to do it.
Other than that, most men are afraid of change or trying to learn something new.
You practice on a few fish. You get it wrong,you eat them, big deal.
Practice will make perfect.
It will all be worth it in the end.
Don't forget to freeze them nice and straight so it's easy for the warden to measure ;D
Again...my 2 cents
I don't eat them...so I certainly don't clean them. I know how to and can do a pretty good job...but that's not in my area...you can make book on that. My responsibility is to find the fish...and there's a good balance and symmetry to how it works out. And it's not that I wholly dislike the taste or texture of the 'eyes...I just don't appreciate it...so why harvest the fish? My buds know how to find fish just as well as I do too...so we have no issues both catching and chowing...if that's what you like. I just choose to do one, but not the other. Can't wait until I'm doing both as I always sample when it's prepared. And Marco is a fillet'er...but he'd rather wait for the plate to be delivered...just like me... :)
Quote from: Jay Thomas on April 13, 2016, 10:26:18 AM
Quote from: cmoreau on April 12, 2016, 07:04:08 PMI know some have mixed feelings regarding the regulation changes but as a grad student in Fisheries specializing in Walleye and recreational regulations I can assure you this regulation change is desperately needed for Kipawa and should improve the fishery over time. The Ministry Biologists are very informative and will provide you all their reports if requested (mind you they are only in French) with information that justifies why they have made these changes.
Can I assume that you have obtained and perused these reports? If so, could you please provide a birds eye summary of the facts that justified these changes? Short of that, could you provide the titles of the reports that I should obtain? Thanks in advance.
Jay
Yes there are several reports dating back to the 1980s and likely before that. You can obtain them by contacting the Ministry Biologists (contact info is available on their website http://mffp.gouv.qc.ca/la-faune/) and asking for reports for Kipawa, mind you they are all in french. The long and the short of it is for Walleye the harvest rate for many years now has been about double the MSY (maximum sustainable yield - the amount that can be removed and sustained by the population) and there is a small reproductive population. The new slot size will allow more fish to attain a larger size and the upper slot will protect those big spawners. The same slot size has been used in many of the ZEC lakes with good success.
Again, regarding the confusion between dore jaune and dore noir, dore jaune is the French term for Walleye, translated it would be Yellow Walleye however in English we just call them Walleye Sander vitreus. Dore noir translated directly would be black walleye but that is incorrect they are actually Sauger Sander Canadensis. Some lakes/rivers in the same zone with the same regulations must have Sauger and that's why they are mentioned. To my knowledge there are no Sauger in Kipawa and also in all of the Ministry Reports Sauger is not listed as a species in Kipawa. The difference between the two can be really difficult to distinguish, generally you go off color markings on the caudal, pelvic fins and dorsal fin. To my knowledge (regardless of color yellow, gold, blue, black, etc.) any thing looking like a walleye/sauger in Kipawa is a walleye and the size limit applies. I doubt the wardens would have much sympathy for someone claiming they caught a sauger in kipawa and keeping a walleye that was outside of the harvest slot.
Lake Trout pop is in worse shape than the Walleye, they are having reproductive issues so that's why a stocking program was started last year. The alternative would have been to close the fishery.
Great topic. Good to see this discussed and those on various sides being respectful. I think it should be catch and release maybe every 3 rd or 4th year as well as reduced possession limits. Same goes for trout. I think most could stomach such changes, and their fishing would be better. Anything better than the current regs, which is failing the sustainable max limits, is better.
Quote from: cmoreau on April 16, 2016, 09:23:58 AM
Quote from: Jay Thomas on April 13, 2016, 10:26:18 AM
Quote from: cmoreau on April 12, 2016, 07:04:08 PMI know some have mixed feelings regarding the regulation changes but as a grad student in Fisheries specializing in Walleye and recreational regulations I can assure you this regulation change is desperately needed for Kipawa and should improve the fishery over time. The Ministry Biologists are very informative and will provide you all their reports if requested (mind you they are only in French) with information that justifies why they have made these changes.
Can I assume that you have obtained and perused these reports? If so, could you please provide a birds eye summary of the facts that justified these changes? Short of that, could you provide the titles of the reports that I should obtain? Thanks in advance.
Jay
Yes there are several reports dating back to the 1980s and likely before that. You can obtain them by contacting the Ministry Biologists (contact info is available on their website http://mffp.gouv.qc.ca/la-faune/) and asking for reports for Kipawa, mind you they are all in french. The long and the short of it is for Walleye the harvest rate for many years now has been about double the MSY (maximum sustainable yield - the amount that can be removed and sustained by the population) and there is a small reproductive population. The new slot size will allow more fish to attain a larger size and the upper slot will protect those big spawners. The same slot size has been used in many of the ZEC lakes with good success.
Again, regarding the confusion between dore jaune and dore noir, dore jaune is the French term for Walleye, translated it would be Yellow Walleye however in English we just call them Walleye Sander vitreus. Dore noir translated directly would be black walleye but that is incorrect they are actually Sauger Sander Canadensis. Some lakes/rivers in the same zone with the same regulations must have Sauger and that's why they are mentioned. To my knowledge there are no Sauger in Kipawa and also in all of the Ministry Reports Sauger is not listed as a species in Kipawa. The difference between the two can be really difficult to distinguish, generally you go off color markings on the caudal, pelvic fins and dorsal fin. To my knowledge (regardless of color yellow, gold, blue, black, etc.) any thing looking like a walleye/sauger in Kipawa is a walleye and the size limit applies. I doubt the wardens would have much sympathy for someone claiming they caught a sauger in kipawa and keeping a walleye that was outside of the harvest slot.
Lake Trout pop is in worse shape than the Walleye, they are having reproductive issues so that's why a stocking program was started last year. The alternative would have been to close the fishery.
Thanks for your response. Much appreciated.
Jay
No matter what new rules come into play we must abide by them or pay the price . Our Coca Cola group like to take home some fish from our week for our families as well as a fish fry or two during the week . Releasing the larger fish and obviously the smaller ones make complete sense in sustaining the fishery . As the fish cleaner dude for our entire group I am going to find it very strange making my first cut ahead of the pectoral fins but I'm sure I'll get used to it . Not sure about cutting through the rib cage as I have always worked over the ribs when cleaning but once again Im sure I'll manage
Supporting article sent to me by Corina Joly at Kipawa Bait and Tackle; the descriptor 'critical condition' will send a shiver through you.
Wasn't sure whether to post this to the "Catch and Release" thread or this one, but the article all but indicts recreational fisherman for the issues facing Kipawa's fishery.
https://www.baytoday.ca/more-local/important-regulatory-changes-concerning-recreational-fishing-283067
@pike mike - I would think you can still work over the rib cage, I don't think keeping the bones in is a requirement, is it?
Sorry Jiggin' ,wasn't trying to imply that you had to cut through the rib cage .After about 45 years experience cleaning fish I'm sure I'll get by
I'm sure the MNR will be all over Kipawa the first month, especially on long weekend. They have showed at island before, we'd expect them to if they're on the lake.
Quote from: Canuckbass on April 21, 2016, 04:56:38 PM
I'm sure the MNR will be all over Kipawa the first month, especially on long weekend. They have showed at island before, we'd expect them to if they're on the lake.
Yup they'll be all over my end of the lake as well. They police the sanctuary every year.
I'm somewhat confused;
In the link T-Bone listed, it says the keeper slot size (zone 13) is 32 to 47 cm only, not 37 to 53 cm.
That seems to me to be a significant difference.
Correct me if I am missing reading it.
As I understand the main rules, the walleye harvest size limit for Zones 13 West and 13 East is 32 to 47 cm EXCEPT for the following waters. Kipawa Reservoir and lakes are part of the following waters.
While Lakes Ogascanan, Sasseginaga and Kikwissi in ZEC Kipawa have had the 37 to 53 cm harvest size limit since 2012, the new 2016 walleye harvest length limit in all lakes within ZEC Kipawa is 37 to 53 cm.
Jay
Thank Jay for educating me.
The regs of last several yea4s for the 3 ZEC lakes have been expanded to the Lac Kipawa watershed.
Now the different numbers make sense.
As clear as mud...
Hope all the outfitters have those measuring stick stickers inside the boat with the legal sizes clearly marked.
Just wondering if a weight limit instead of length limit would solve some of these issues. for example, instead of six fish, you can take home 6 lbs.?? If a person chooses one large fish would that really do more damage to the reproduction in the long run than 6 one pounders? Sam
Quote from: fishtildark on April 25, 2016, 04:44:12 PM
Just wondering if a weight limit instead of length limit would solve some of these issues. for example, instead of six fish, you can take home 6 lbs.?? If a person chooses one large fish would that really do more damage to the reproduction in the long run than 6 one pounders? Sam
I think the issue with that may be the accuracy of ones scale, most peoples scales are inaccurate, where as length is pretty cut and dry. And as far as weight vs length- I think length would protect more fish as you could potentially go out, catch 10 fish and not be able to keep any with a slot limit, but with a weight limit, every fish would be keepable until you hit that 6lbs threshold.
I think length is a better indicator of the age of the fish and the associated fertility. So, it's likely a better way to manage the resource.
Is there an english document somewhere telling how we must filet the fish? I usually just filet them normally, with no fins or skin left. That's not ok here I guess, so I want to make sure I do it right and follow the rules. We will not be taking any home, just back to our campsite, but I don't want to filet them in camp in case the bears smell it, so we might pass an MNR boat on way back to camp.
Thanks for your great website, and great info.
Regards,
Phil
For walleye I found this:
t is mandatory to fillet the fish with the skin fully attached to identify the species and determine the length at locations where it is necessary to do so. The fish must have the following length:
In the case of yellow walleye in respect of which the length range fished is set at 38 cm or more and less than 53 cm, the two fillets must measure 28 cm or more and less than 40 cm, measured from the tip of the tail fin to the interior attachment point of the pectoral fin. The fillets must be connected by the tail and the pectoral fins and the skin must adhere to the fillet.
But for TROUT it says this:
Whole1 only . It must be possible to count and identify the fish (a piece of skin must adhere to the filet).
So what is the answer? How can the offical document here http://www.mffp.gouv.qc.ca/english/publications/online/wildlife/fishing-regulations/fishing-periods.asp
say both "Whole1 only " and "It must be possible to count and identify the fish (a piece of skin must adhere to the filet)" in the same box? Which is it? Whole only or filet with a piece of skin?
Thanks for your help!
So...let's say I go fishing Saturday evening and catch 6 legal walleye we want for dinner Sunday afternoon. When I get back in Saturday evening must I clean them the new way leaving the skin on and then just before we cook them take the skin off?
Very good point
I was thinking the exact same thing
I guess the resort host will have to answer that one.
yes you do.
If they can inspect your freezer like TBone has stated, you can bet they would expect to find the skin on, individually wrapped in order to count them and filleted the new way.
It's always been the case especially if you're cottage/house is on the water.
I doubt the MNR would be visiting you in your downtown Toronto condo unless they have reasonable doubt.
Cleaning the new way is ONLY dor transportation thats it if you are not shure uou are going to eat them better do it the new way Reggie
Like T-Bone said we have had them check (two different years) the fish in the cabin in the fridge. Once we were out fishing and was checked in boat and they went straight to the cabin from us to check the fridge. Our wives were at the cabin. Apparently we must have looked like some one at the Post Office LOL! They better have the skins and fins and be filleted the new way to be legal. I had been told years ago by Carl Mongrain (Alwaki Lodge previous owner) that until you are ready to cook them they better have skin on them. In 33 years they have checked fish in the cabin twice. They were pretty nice guys also. No troubles what so ever. So my guess is to be safe. You might want to have the oil bubbling if they don't have skins and fins! Sorry I got kind of repetitive. But would hate to see some one not be able to come back to beautiful Kipawa. I know I wouldn't be able to take it.
They have stopped and checked our property as well.
Glad I wasn't there but I can tell ya, follow the rules and keep skin on.
I've never seen them on Hunter but my neighbor has been checked and they are concerned with 3 things:
1-you have your license
2-the fish you have are the appropriate length
and
3-you better have kept your empties in the boat and not thrown in the lake.
Remember......always be cordial and good things happen. They are just doing their job.
You are allowed to drink in your boat in Quebec if you dispose of empties properly? I thought drinking and boating is illegal?
it is illegal but they are cool about it if you're not blasted. i wouldn't advertise it though.
I have sent an email to the liaison lady for regulations to obtain the skinny on this topic. I received an auto response that she's out of the office until 9 May. I might get a response by 13 May. When I do obtain her response, I'll post it verbatim.
Jay
I checked with Dumoine today and the new regs Do Not Apply to Exculsive Rights Areas for everyone's information.
Here's the verbatim response received today regarding what to do with harvested walleye/sauger destined for the dinner table:
"If you’re not at home (ex : when at an outfitter) you must keep a yellow walleye and a sauger whole or filleted with the skin fully attached (same thing for the black walleye). You must also conserve skin fully attached to the fillet until when you will be ready to eat them."
Jay
So??????
If we clean some fish on Monday night and expect to eat them Tuesday lunch, the skin must stay on until that time?
Quote from: Jay Thomas on May 12, 2016, 05:18:59 PM
"If you’re not at home (ex : when at an outfitter) you must keep a yellow walleye and a sauger whole or filleted with the skin fully attached (same thing for the black walleye). You must also conserve skin fully attached to the fillet until when you will be ready to eat them."
That can't be right; so the guy that owns the lodge (it being his home) has to operate under a different set of rules than the guest in the cabin next to him? Something is screwy there...
And
@RHYBAK...you really should just simplify the interpretation of this rules change and throw them all back. We all know that you really don't care one way or another whether you consume any 'eyes when up on Kipawa. ;)
Quote from: T-Bone on May 25, 2016, 04:12:17 PM
Quote from: Jay Thomas on May 12, 2016, 05:18:59 PM
"If you’re not at home (ex : when at an outfitter) you must keep a yellow walleye and a sauger whole or filleted with the skin fully attached (same thing for the black walleye). You must also conserve skin fully attached to the fillet until when you will be ready to eat them."
That can't be right; so the guy that owns the lodge (it being his home) has to operate under a different set of rules than the guest in the cabin next to him? Something is screwy there...
And @RHYBAK...you really should just simplify the interpretation of this rules change and throw them all back. We all know that you really don't care one way or another whether you consume any 'eyes when up on Kipawa. ;)
T-Bone
You are right 100%, but I have 9 other fish eaters that have to be fed.
I don't even tough the stuff .
Mainly because I'm cooking and by the time I'm done, the cooked fish is done.
Calicofishing I read your post about Dumoine. That is where we have been going for 20 + years. You talked with Eric and the new rules don't apply ! that is actually good news. I would assume they still must be cleaned in the new way for identification reasons? May have to e mail them just for fun. THANKS
So the simplist thing is to only gut and de-head the fish until it is in the cooks hands beside a hot pan.
(and leave the fin on right beside the gills)
I just want to be sure as I'm the cook.
Our fish cleaner is someone else (separation of duties).
Quote from: SgtCrabby on May 27, 2016, 11:33:44 PM
So the simplist thing is to only gut and de-head the fish until it is in the cooks hands beside a hot pan (and leave the fin on right beside the gills). I just want to be sure as I'm the cook.
Our fish cleaner is someone else (separation of duties).
That is how I interpret it too SgtCrabby. Since I'm the fish cleaner for our group, I'll just clean all walleyes as if I were transporting them home. Those destined for home will be vacuum sealed and put in the freezer while those destined for the dinner table will be stored on a plate in the refrigerator.
Jay
After all these discussions, it comes down to something as simple as gutted with option of deheading.
Just follow the KISS principle; Keep It Simple, Stupid