To Troll or Not To Troll - - That is the question

[crackers42]

Sorry but I from experience we only target 4 to 25 feet all year no need to go deeper

The point I am trying to make is you can have a 3/8 ounce or half ounce rubber core sinker on 45 degree angle in 25 feet of water with 35 feet of like out max
Pickerel spoke very easily in the summer months

From my experience a heavy bottom bouncer is not needed but that is merely my opinion

Have always wondered why use a heavy set up if you don’t have to

Lighter the better

[crackers42]

1 oz for 10 feet or 2 oz for 20 feet is way too much if you are trolling at normal sports ie. 1.2 to 1.5

[Jay Thomas]

Here's an educational article on bottom bouncing - see https://www.northernontario.travel/algoma-country/summer-walleye-fishing-with-bottom-bouncer-and-spinner-rigs

Jay

[crackers42]

Thanks for the article jay interesting read

All I am saying is you need two ounces to get a bottom bouncer down as there is extra drag

1/2 ounce rubber core is plenty in 20 feet of water

If anyone hasn’t tried and wants a lighter set up give it a try you won’t be disappointed

[smitty55]

Thanks for the article jay interesting read

All I am saying is you need two ounces to get a bottom bouncer down as there is extra drag

1/2 ounce rubber core is plenty in 20 feet of water

If anyone hasn’t tried and wants a lighter set up give it a try you won’t be disappointed

Crackers you really need to stop being so stubborn, a half ounce weight will have your line way too far back to have the proper control like a bottom bouncer gives you, it's not at all like regular long line trolling.

Did you read this paragraph? It's pretty obvious that if this technique is preferred by the pros there is a lot of merit to using them.
"To professional walleye fishermen, the bottom bouncer and spinner rig is affectionately referred to as the "money rig". This common walleye presentation has won more money for more tournament anglers than all the other fishing presentations combined!"
That should tell you all you need to know instead of knocking it because according to you it's too much weight. Nobody is saying that trolling anything won't work, but there are many other techniques that can work as well or better. Those heavy weights are what keeps your line at the proper angle with a minimal amount of line out at differing depths and wind conditions along with keeping it mostly vertical.

Cheers

[GregL]

Don’t understand why you would need 2-3 ounce bottom bouncers to get to bottom?Unless I am totally missing something ?

The general rule for bottom bouncers is for 1oz per 10ft of depth. Like chummy mentioned you don't want your line at any more than a 45° angle. Back trolling with a bouncer allows you to precisely cover specific structure areas that you could never do with standard trolling.

Cheers

EXACTLY! We do the same, except I troll with my bow TM. Also, they are "Bottom bouncers" not "Bottom Draggers".

Here is our method.
1) Start boat get to desired speed. For me I start at 1.5 and move up/down depending on fish.
2) On a taught line drop bouncer to bottom. I pull the rod forward and slowly let rod back till  it's 45 degrees behind me.
3) close reel and pull rod forward until it's perpendicular to me, this get's me just off bottom and I can drop rod back to 45 degrees to tick the bottom every once and awhile.
4) Then I zig zag from 10 to 25' until I find the fish

Another thing that really helps is having a reel that has flipping switch for temporary letting line out.

Hope that helps

Oh and I've done 4 lines trolling no problem, 6 is a challenge I want to try! Trolling for me should not be relaxing unless your on a very defined pattern you should be changing baits/depths every 5-10 mins until they are dialed in. (This has been a hard practice for us, we grab lures we've done well with and just start trolling. We were much better this year on the May long weekend and it paid off!)

[T-Bone]

I don't know...if you ask me they're more a "dragger" than they are a "bouncer". How do I know? Whenever I use one, I refer to them as a "Snagger". 

Also, they are "Bottom bouncers" not "Bottom Draggers".

Here is our method.
1) Start boat get to desired speed. For me I start at 1.5 and move up/down depending on fish.
2) On a taught line drop bouncer to bottom. I pull the rod forward and slowly let rod back till  it's 45 degrees behind me.
3) close reel and pull rod forward until it's perpendicular to me, this get's me just off bottom and I can drop rod back to 45 degrees to tick the bottom every once and awhile.
4) Then I zig zag from 10 to 25' until I find the fish

I've finally figured out all this science behind trolling and think I have it translated. Here is really what you need to know:

[Jay Thomas]

I don't know...if you ask me they're more a "dragger" than they are a "bouncer". How do I know? Whenever I use one, I refer to them as a "Snagger". 

I just don't believe it's logical to criticize a fishing method just because you don't know how to do it properly.

Todd, you started this thread with:

OK…I’ll admit it…I’m interested to hear what’s so great about trolling. I have so many questions I’m not sure where to begin. To make it easy, I’ll give my current perspective on how I see trolling…both from observation and from relatively limited experience, and only from the angle of targeting walleye. It may sound like I’m arguing a position against trolling…I am not…just giving my current perspective. Any insights, suggestions, and tips are appreciated in advance.

Yet, your responses to posts supportive of trolling seem negative. I'm starting to wonder whether this thread was intended as a "troll".

Jay

[T-Bone]

I'm trolling for information Jay, that's all. If I was looking to indict the method I would have just done so from the start. At the most, I guess I'm asking the group to change a perception I have of trolling given my lack of complete understanding.

So to this point, my opinion is based off the answers to my questions. Nothing more. I've learned a lot and will definitely apply some of it when we're up there. And I'm not criticizing BB as a method, and I do understand it. The bottom bouncer comment is simply an observation of my experience; near Alwaki, when used, we snagged a lot...hence we abandoned trying. I'm sure that method works given the right structure (bottom make-up) and being able to consistently apply sharpness to speed, direction, line release, etc.

And for you mathematicians out there, please don't take offense to my joke...it was only in fun...

[Ozzy30]

I kind of liked the math and found it quite amusing.  With all this knowledge you have gotten from this thread I will soon have you in the boat with Mattie and I trolling for Lake Trout.

[T-Bone]

I kind of liked the math and found it quite amusing.  With all this knowledge you have gotten from this thread I will soon have you in the boat with Mattie and I trolling for Lake Trout.

As long as you're the Captain, I'm confident I can't lose...thanks Ozzy. 

[crackers42]

Smitty55: to each their own

I am speaking from a lot of years experience and merely trying to give another perspective

If one wants a bottom bouncer then use it by all means and enjoy

All I am saying if you are in 20 feet of water you do not more then a half ounce at most to troll if your preference is a lighter set up

If your preference is fishing with a purple rod, pink line, green lure in the worst hail storm known to man then enjoy

All Todd wanted was various techniques

Todd: I was going to recap what “we” have done for the last 20 years from opener to fall and various techniques in order to help others that can’t make it up as much as some of us but not sure if I want the feedback

[T-Bone]

Correct on all counts...especially to each his own. We throw a bucket of techniques at them when we go...try it all...but mostly jig. I'm just trying to refine what we should do when trying this or that.

I still have questions about how far the crawler harness is behind the weight...do you use a 3-way swivel...why does a lure need to be X feet behind the bottom bouncer...what blade color is better for this or that. I could go on and on. But...what I really want to know on the rubber core weight set up or any that might mimic it; are you fishing "on bottom" or a few feet above it...in an ideal set up?

And Crackers...I'd appreciate that summary. You can send it to me PM if you want...I'd love to have the insights you have on that lake and how to fish it. The only feedback you will get is probably more questions. It would be priceless. Thanks for the offer.

Still 29...

[BH]

Which ever method you prefer, a smaller blade on your harness will keep you deeper and in the strike zone than the lager blades (you equation proves it).  Too much drag from the large blades.

[Hodgey1]

Which ever method you prefer, a smaller blade on your harness will keep you deeper and in the strike zone than the lager blades (you equation proves it).  Too much drag from the large blades.

Are most people making their own worm harnesses or is there a particular brand/style/size that is preferred for Kipawa for purchase? Having never used one, when I look to purchase some for my up coming trip to Kip in July, the selection I see online at places like Bass Pro are slim.