Outfitter Support

[NortonJoe]

Just wondering from our Canadian friends...Are the federal and/or provincial governments helping the outfitters out financially?  They must be taking a real hit.

[Hodgey1]

Someone told me they're only running at 25-30% of normal business. If that's true, they are certainly going to need some help to stay afloat .

I think they should allow anyone willing to pay for a certified test prior to entry to enter    Kidding...... I know...... I know  I know

[smitty55]

They finally came out just recently  in Ontario with a little bit of help but it's nowhere near enough. All they are doing is refunding or not charging payments for (LUP) Land Use Permits and (BMA) Bear Management Areas which only helps out some outfitters.

[Jay Thomas]

IMHO, there’s just not enough of a benefit for any level of government to support outfitters. To put it in perspective, just how many jobs are created or maintained by government support of an outfitter. Some will make an argument that non-Canadian clients will spend lots of dollars in the area visited. Based on numerous trip reports, the majority of non-Canadian clients bring almost everything with them.

Similar to most businesses, there are good revenue years and there are poor revenue years. Sound financial management should allow most outfitters to survive a poor revenue year.

Canada’s deficit for 2019 was approximately 19 billion dollars. The estimated deficit for 2020 has been estimated to reach 343 billion primarily due to all the support dollars provided by the Government to keep residents going during the COVID 19 pandemic. The Government is providing support dollars where they get the most bang for the buck.

There are no guarantees for anyone in business. Caveat Emptor!

Jay

[Hodgey1]

Based on numerous trip reports, the majority of non-Canadian clients bring almost everything with them.

The vast majority (85-90%) of the dollars/loonies I spend for our trips is for Canadian expenditures, like gas, bait, licenses, hotels, perishable foods, beer, Liquor, restaurants and Outfitters costs. None of these are things that can be brought in. When I go to the IGA in Témiscaming, I bang carts with other Non-Cad’s picking up supplies as we do. I try hard to run lean and minimize are costs, so I’m a bad example, but others that I’ve come to know from TN, PA and OH spend nearly 100% of their trip costs on Canadian expenditures. Now look at your entire country, not just the little economic impact in the Kipawa area, the vast amount of hunting and fishing Outfitters across your entire beautiful Country and I’m certain its in the billions.

I had to look quick, I knew google had the answer: 2017 Economic Impact from Outfitters Country wide $5.5 billion and 37,200 jobs . From the Cadnadian Federation of Outfitters Assoc

[wayne]

The government is offering  financial assistance to businesses that qualify. This is a loan. It will keep some of us a float for a while, but if this continues into next season, well who knows. We are here alone on a Saturday morning in the middle of the season, when we should be running around like fools. If we do 10% of our season this year we will be lucky. I am sure most of us are in the same boat. I have friends who a fly in lodge in Northern Ontario. They have had a handful of guests. The silver lining to this is we are getting a ton of work done around the lodge and I have never seen the lake so quiet. I am going fishing more often than I have in 10 years. The fishing is amazing!! Finding new locations, and catching and releasing some beautiful fish minutes from camp. You can see some on our face book page. Take care, everyone stay safe.

[puckster_guy]

The government is offering  financial assistance to businesses that qualify. This is a loan. It will keep some of us a float for a while, but if this continues into next season, well who knows. We are here alone on a Saturday morning in the middle of the season, when we should be running around like fools. If we do 10% of our season this year we will be lucky. I am sure most of us are in the same boat. I have friends who a fly in lodge in Northern Ontario. They have had a handful of guests. The silver lining to this is we are getting a ton of work done around the lodge and I have never seen the lake so quiet. I am going fishing more often than I have in 10 years. The fishing is amazing!! Finding new locations, and catching and releasing some beautiful fish minutes from camp. You can see some on our face book page. Take care, everyone stay safe.

c'mon  by for a beer Wayne  , I'm just hanging out as well. 
.

[Hodgey1]

Canada’s deficit for 2019 was approximately 19 billion dollars. The estimated deficit for 2020 has been estimated to reach 343 billion primarily due to all the support dollars provided by the Government to keep residents going during the COVID 19 pandemic. The Government is providing support dollars where they get the most bang for the buck.

Jay, As a financially conservative person, I get your concerns about governmental over spending. My problem is i have a huge soft spot for small/ma & pa businesses, which is what I see most of the Canadian outfitters being. There definitely is no magic wand for what is happening in the world as we type/speak. Al I know is I’m getting old and too wise to government, social media and the media in generals BS! I love your country and hope it weathers this awful storm.

Wayne, hang in there! Joe, bring a beer to Wayne, he can’t afford the gas. LOL 

[Jay Thomas]

Hi Chris,

Let me emphasize that I too regret watching/reading about the financial woes of those in the outfitter business across Canada. There’s always more work that needs to get done at these businesses in a day than the hours necessary to accomplish those tasks. It’s a tough job and I have lots of respect for those who are outfitters.

However, in early 2020, out of the blue, along comes the COVID virus, a virus that can easily kill. Most jurisdictions in Canada went into shut down mode as a means to control the spread of the virus. The Canadian government rapidly developed support programs (provided dollars) to give people forced out of work at least a chance to survive. That’s the primary cause for our ballooning deficit for 2020.

Soon after, Canada and the US opted to close the border between our two countries to provide even more control over the spread of the virus. The border closing has had dire consequences for Canadian outfitters because their out of country clients with reservations for 2020 can’t enter Canada. What to do?

I remain convinced that taxpayer dollars are not a bottomless pit. And as a consequence, not everybody is going to get financial support. Sure, it would nice to ensure that every outfitter could receive the financial support necessary to survive through to 2021. BUT â€" where would those support dollars come from? Like I said, tax dollars are not a bottomless pit. Some outfitters may not survive 2020. However, outfitters who practiced sound financial management in the years preceding 2020 should have a very good chance of surviving until 2021.

If you’re not planning for success, you’re planning to fail.

Jay
 

[smitty55]

Jay the biggest problem is with the incompetence of the federal government who during this crisis is still more interested in paying money to acquire votes. In this case the are giving $12B to students living at home with their parents with a household income of over $100,00. Kust think where that money properly should have gone to business like outfitters for one.
https://www.insauga.com/young-canadians-living-with-parents-eligible-for-nearly-12-billion-in-cerb-benefits-study

Cheers

[Jay Thomas]

Hi smitty55,

Thanks for the reference. I had no idea that students could be eligible for CERB benefits. In their haste to get dollars out to folks in need, I suspect that mistakes/oversights were part of the process. Personally, IMHO, it's not just the federal Liberals who are incompetent. There's plenty of incompetence amongst the Conservatives and the NDP too.

Jay

[CaptainCrappie]

Have no fears fellas.  The USA has plenty of money, it just depends on who wants it.  Printing presses are running around the clock.  Conservatism is out the door.  It only applies to cutting benefits for vets or food stamps for those " people that expect handouts." Forget about the kids because the moms are driving cadillacs payed for with the food stamps.   Oh, and support the Wounded Warriors" because the country renigged on their promise to veterans. I am living proof so don't think I'm making this stuff up. (no veterans prescription benefits because household income is over $32000.)  Cutting taxes for the wealthy or large corporations are the priorities.  Giving a benefit for the working class... Isn't that Socialism say the powers that be?  Only then do you hear about the national debt. No money for that!  Oh, and another thing.... "We don't want to leave a debt for our children to cover....  Yeah right!   The wife and I have prescription costs which will be about $12000 this year.  Wanna win a bet?  Tell someone that the wealthy had tax rates above 90% up into the early fifties. Look it up!    Now they're considered smart by not paying taxes using loopholes that they created.  Isn't a lobbyist performing an act of legalized bribery, which a crime?  The foxes are running the hen house and a lot of people are just fine with it. Seems that common sense is not common. Just tell me again how the government cares about me. After all, I've been told not to believe anything I see or what I hear.   Sorry guys for the rant.  I'm a bit edgy. 

C.C

[T-Bone]

I'm a little edgy and salty too. Supposed to leave for Kipawa in about 8-hours...and clearly that's not happening. And without getting into this or that, it's a sh*tshow...in total. If the Mods want to take that down, fine...but that's the only word that captures how pathetic it is right now.

Rant away. If you can't rant now, there is no room for ranting ever...at least to this point in my lifetime.

[BigChief]

If there is any outfitter that wants to sell a cabin to help defray costs, I will buy one for retirement. Could make it like a timeshare until I retire. I pick the weeks I want to use it and the outfitter rents it out the other weeks. They agree to handle upkeep. And when I retire in 10 years it is mine free and clear.

[Greg]

Geez BigChief - thats a great idea... I would also do that in a second.... except I would want 2 weeks!

Greg