I really enjoyed trout fishing last July while at Kipawa. We didn’t do great, but we typically were picking up 2 fish per outing. We’d skip some early morning walleye outings and opt for a trout troll at 9:00am until lunch time.
I found trying to fish the structures a challenge with the sometimes dramatic depth changes cause anxiety attacks. I had a great first mate in my son-in-law Chad, so we never snagged a ball or lost tackle, but after a week at Kipawa, I looked close at my rigger balls and noticed they were beat up bad from apparently banging structure.
Until I can upgrade my navigation to have background maps, I think I’m going to skip trolling for lakers or at least so close to structures. I won’t have my first mate this year so I’ll be breaking in a newbie and would hate to snag a rigger ball on the bottom. I’m primarily there for walleyes, but like the change up a few days, which brings me to my question.
I stay at Alwaki and know that area fairly well. Can trolling more open waters in July be productive for lakers? I’m contemplating purchasing a Fishawk water temperature device to get my depth right. Any tips are greatly appreciated.
As a side note and amendment of my post, I have gotten tremendous help here from the board with maps and tips on targeting trout in regards to structure. My question currently is more about open water trolling and within reason avoiding structure for the most part.
If I stayed primarily in the deeper more open parts of the lake, am I going to have any luck or am I wasting time and gas? We typically would make laps in a triangle pattern just to the west and outside the tip of Corbeau. We had decent luck but as mentioned, at times it was stressful hugging structure particularly when making runs along the east side heading North toward Red Roof cabins. There's a monster devils backbone there that comes up beyond quick.
I see looking at the depth maps just to the west of Corbeau that the water in that large portion of the Lake is consistently 150-200' deep, also Hunter looks like the entire length of the lake in the middle is over 80' deep.
Please don't label me a structure Pu__y ;D, but my crew is new and I want it to be a more relaxing troll. On the flip side, if i'd have the same luck casting from shore in catching trout, then I may rethink trolling for Lakers this year.
Hi Hodgey1,
I'm no expert lake trout fisherman so take my input with a grain of salt. Like you, although I primarily go on fishing trips to fish walleye, I enjoy spending a few hours each day trying for some lake trout. And besides, I enjoy eating lake trout too.
If you can't mark lake trout somewhere in the water column on your electronics - move to a different area.
If you want to target bottom hugging lake trout in deep water without losing a downrigger ball - try vertically jigging them instead. I'll be using some Shimano butterfly jigs this year to do exactly that. Here's a video of how a local guide jigs lake trout https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trvRif8sq4s
Much of the time, lake trout will move into the thermocline to feed. Typically in the summer months on Lake Kipawa, the thermocline is somewhere between 25 and 35 feet. Consequently, you can safely use your downriggers to troll at that depth over deeper water. However, one must always experiment. Some years, we enjoyed modest success trolling a Williams Sutton #71 spoon 20 feet behind our downrigger balls in 50 FOW over 90 FOW.
I sold my downrigger gear a few years ago. Now, when I want to troll for lake trout mid summer, I troll with Magnum Dipsy Divers. Although I troll various spoons off my Dipsy Diver, I also plan to troll some Spin N Glo lures as well as some Worden Wobble Glo lures.
Good luck lake trout fishing this summer.
Jay
I always rely on my sonar which shows me the distinct thermocline no different then fishing Lake Erie and no need to fish structure
You need a good sonar setup to achieve this
Chris you can still fish with your riggers close to structure without having to worry about hitting bottom, just don't go to close. Like Jay mentioned the thermocline generally sets up in 25-35ft so set your riggers to that and just make sure to stay in water over 50ft. Plus if you can find baitfish schools in open water by all means go for the open water troll.
One thing confuses me. You said the rigger ball looks beat up like it was hitting bottom. I don't understand how you wouldn't have noticed that while you were trolling, you should have been able to hear, feel and see it if it did bang bottom.
Cheers
Hodgey 1, What I look for is bait balls, or fish deeper than what you would expect walleye to be at typically over 75 to 200 FOW. If you are marking big schools of fish, they are probably Whitefish. My daughter who has caught more Lakers than my son and I combined drags a Deep Sixer followed by a gang troll ( 48" behind ) followed by a Williams Wabler ( 30/36" behind, silver or gold depending on sun or cloud ) We've had good success in the narrows @ Corbeau Island. stay in the middle or to the North side when you get to the point along the cliff wall, cause that shoal comes up out of nowhere. Also want to try the approach to Alwaki Lodge, when coming fro Corbeau, starting approx a mile before and troll right to the end of the Island staying in the middle, there's 80 to 100 FOW. Tight lines.
We have done really well catching lake trout in July near Alwaki. We jig near structure in 35 to 40 ft of water that drops down to 80 to 100 ft. Our go to jig is a Heddon sonar blade bait in firetiger. If you want to troll over deep water try Hunter lake. I've caught lake trout there also. Hot n Tots work well. Good luck and have fun.
Quote from: Jay Thomas on May 28, 2019, 03:44:30 PM
. Here's a video of how a local guide jigs lake trout https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trvRif8sq4s
Thanks, All great info Jay and enjoyed the video, maybe I will have to give Jigging for trout a try.
Quote from: crackers42 on May 28, 2019, 03:49:25 PM
You need a good sonar setup to achieve this
Maybe that what my wife should get me for Father’s Day! People have told me I should be able to pickup the thermocline on my finder. I’ve had no luck on my current Garmin
Quote from: smitty55 on May 28, 2019, 08:33:51 PM
Like Jay mentioned the thermocline generally sets up in 25-35ft so set your riggers to that and just make sure to stay in water over 50ft.
So the thermocline is a good depth to target Lakers? Maybe we were running too deep, I think 58’-70’, I think I’m going to buy a fishawk to find the right temp/depth
Quote from: smitty55 on May 28, 2019, 08:33:51 PM
One thing confuses me. You said the rigger ball looks beat up like it was hitting bottom. I don't understand how you wouldn't have noticed that while you were trolling, you should have been able to hear, feel and see it if it did bang bottom.
If memory is correct, we were fishing in 90’ of water and running our Riggers at about 70 feet. There were multiple occasions when the water depth came up so dramatically causing us to hit the up button on the downrigger‘s very quickly. There were occasions when the lines would trip from the release and another time when we actually had the clutch engage and dragline out on the downrigger‘s. Had to stop and pull in all lines. Thankful no snags on either lines or riggers......
Being fairly new to all of this it created times of stress and aggravation when I feel it should be more relaxing. I really want to be able to switch it up now and again and troll for lake trout. I just want to do it in a way that I don’t have to rely on having to pay such close attention to the depth and react to those changes. It’s probably a smart move to replace my finder with a chart plotter/finder.
Quote from: Captain Hali on May 28, 2019, 09:51:40 PM. My daughter who has caught more Lakers than my son and I combined drags a Deep Sixer followed by a gang troll ( 48" behind ) followed by a Williams Wabler ( 30/36" behind, silver or gold depending on sun or cloud)
That is basically the setup Smitty has suggested to me. I have the Gangs, but have not put them to use yet. This July I will.
Quote from: Rico on May 29, 2019, 07:33:25 AM
We have done really well catching lake trout in July near Alwaki. We jig near structure in 35 to 40 ft of water that drops down to 80 to 100 ft. Our go to jig is a Heddon sonic blade bait in firetiger. If you want to troll over deep water try Hunter lake. I've caught lake trout there also. Hot n Tots work well. Good luck and have fun.
Great info, thanks Rico. I plan on giving hunters a try this year.
Ive done well in Hunters also Hodgey - lots of good advice here - as you may remember, I use lead core line and troll putting anywhere from 120 to 220 feet out depending on depth and if I am headed into the wind or with the wind (speed adjusts the angle the lead core goes out at).
Yes, along side Corbeau is very popular - I've caught my largest there and funny that everybody mentions that same shoal!! YIKES WE ARE AT 36 FEET!!! IT WAS 85 or 90 A SECOND AGO!!!
Also right down the middle of Dead Bear bay and on both sides of Thompson island (Alwaki) - right down the middle (as others have mentioned).
Fishing should never be stressful or anxiety inducing... don't put yourself through that - move to deeper and try different depths - when you get a laker, zero in on that depth - plus or minus 10 feet - see if you get another one! If you do, you know your on to something.
Looking forward to trying for a laker again!
Greg
Hodgey as you know, like Greg I pretty well dragged lead core or copper for all of my many years fishing for Greys up in Kipawa and even before. In my case it was always a #1 or sometimes #77 Big Hammer 7 blade gang troll. Maybe smaller stuff early season. Bottom line for me, they call fish in from a distance that small ones just can't. When I first started going in the early 80's we could buy and use live minnows that were purchased on the lake. That was nice to say the least, :) , just make sure to keep the receipt safe and in the boat hehe .
All of the other guys in our "gang" learned Lake trout fishing the same way, but as some of the lads progressed to bigger rides downrigging became their primary technique. I spent one season in Wayne's rig and we hardly ever had the riggers deeper than 35ft, usually less, and that's what the other boats were running as well. If you find a good depth, don't wander too much, at least for that part of the day. The one thing that never changed though is that all the guys were still dragging the big gangs trolls just like the old days, go figure. Later on I would bring salted Emerald shiners for the boys that I bought when a wholeseller I know had his best batch of the season, usually feb/mar.
Cheers
What speed should I be targeting? If memory serves me, my boat wont go much below 2 mph. If I was to get a Drift sock for my 18' Lund, how big should I get and can I use just one or is it best to have two, one off each corner?
Hi Hodgey1,
Here's another few comments to take with a grain of salt.
Here's a web reference to size of drift socks required to match conditions and boat size - see https://www.lindyfishingtackle.com/drift-sock-chart
Here's another web reference that provides some drift sock basics - see https://www.in-fisherman.com/editorial/driftsocks-mastering-boat-control/154013
Even though I don't own my own boat, I purchased a 36 inch Lindy Wave Tamer drift sock many many moons ago to slow down my back trolling speeds in camp boats. When necessary, I simply deploy my drift sock off the bow. I probably back troll 90% of my time on the water when fishing walleye and I prefer to back troll at somewhere between 0.7 and 1.5 mph.
As for target trolling speeds for lake trout, I typically forward troll between 2 and 3 mph (trolling with magnum dipsy divers and lures).
At least 10 years ago, when I still used my portable downrigger, we would attach a Dave Davis H #1 spinner (3 big blades and 4 smaller blades) to our downrigger balls. Then, 5 to 6 feet above that, we would attach a 20 foot leader to whatever lure we were trolling. My fishing buddy, who introduced me to downrigging, instructed me that the best trolling speed was when the downrigger cable made a certain noise - no doubt based on his years of catching lake trout with this method. I learned to identify that downrigger cable sound to be successful. This was before I had a sonar unit that provided me GPS based speed. Consequently, I have no idea what our trolling speed was. Whatever the speed was, it worked. One afternoon, my buddy and I landed 6 lake trout in 90 minutes doing this.
Jay
Hodgey for me when using those big trolls I strictly go by the action of the troll, I can tell by feel and look of the rod tip, just as it starts thumping from those 3 big blades is what I always aim for and it's always right around 1mph depending on wind and current so you will definitely need a pail, windsock or even a trolling plate to get your speed down slow enough.
Cheers
Hodgey, consensus has the preferred speed at below 2 mph. I usually start at 2 and if no action slow it down gradually all the way to 1.2 mph. I have marked most fish at 45 to 50 FOW. As for drift socks, go to https://www.lindyfishingtackle.com/drift-sock-chart. Different factors come into play.
After some research, I think I’m going to add a trolling plate to my motor. They don’t seem to cost a lot and being able to dial in the right speed seems important. I was told that boat stands for “bring on another thousand†boy is that true. I have already hit that mark with the addition of the downriggers and some other misc things. I’m not complaining though...... Can’t wait to be sitting on it in July. :D
Great decision Hodgey, trolling plates do work well and are much less hassle than windsocks or pails etc. Easy to install and in some boats aids in getting on plane quicker. We installed one on my SIL 60hp and had no prob trolling for Greys. The most important thing to pound into your head is to make SURE to get into the habit of lifting the plate before taking off after a trolling run. Also he ended up extending the release cable to make it easier to access.
One last thing. I highly recommend you use Nyloc nuts for installation. No lockwasher required but a larger SS flat washer will help distribute the force over a larger area.
Cheers
Hey Hodgey I have seen some of the very new hummingbirds helix 9's be able to pick up the thermocline but what you are looking for is what depth you are marking the most fish at. That is going to be the thermocline. If you are looking for bait balls usually at Kipawa you need to find the warmer water which means shallower water or back bays up in Lac audoin. For all the years I have been fishing lakers at Kipawa the average depth is 30-45 and that mostly keeps you out of trouble. If you do want to catch consistantly bigger lakers you sometimes need to fool with the shoals though. I am up at Alwaki at Canada Day this year if you're around look me up.
Quote from: Ozzy30 on June 06, 2019, 04:40:09 PMI am up at Alwaki at Canada Day this year if you're around look me up.
Hey Oz, I met you and your family last July at Alwaki. I appreciate the tips. I will be at Alwaki the end of July and again the beginning of September.
I will have to try running my riggers shallower. When running at 30’-45’ what total depth of water would you typically target? Also, What are your thoughts on trolling Hunters lake for lakers?
Quote from: Hodgey1 on June 07, 2019, 09:09:25 PM
Also, What are your thoughts on trolling Hunters lake for lakers?
Hodgey that run near the top end of Hunters that I showed you is one of my favourite runs, it has never let me down. As a bonus it's often out of the wind and the average size was real good. Run your riggers there at 25 -30 fow over 60 -80 ft and you'll be fine.
Cheers
Quote from: smitty55 on June 08, 2019, 12:01:07 PM
Quote from: Hodgey1 on June 07, 2019, 09:09:25 PM
Also, What are your thoughts on trolling Hunters lake for lakers?
Hodgey that run near the top end of Hunters that I showed you is one of my favourite runs, it has never let me down. As a bonus it's often out of the wind and the average size was real good. Run your riggers there at 25 -30 fow over 60 -80 ft and you'll be fine.
Cheers
Smitty, i have your maps printed out and in my boat from last season. I am going to try the gang trolls you suggested also this season. Thanks for always being there to help!
Quote from: smitty55 on June 01, 2019, 12:06:33 PM
Great decision Hodgey, trolling plates do work well and are much less hassle than windsocks or pails etc.
It’s installed, Was pretty simple to do also.
(http://i63.tinypic.com/2rhn0p2.jpg)
Look what Father’s Day brought.
(http://i65.tinypic.com/2daj0qx.jpg)
Starting to worry me Hodgey...sometimes good 'ol intuition is better than applying technology to figure something out. May have to get you a hat with a propeller on it. Think of how many times you've pulled up a a spot that "looked good" and you caught fish. This has happened for us on Kipawa PLENTY of times.
I suppose in this case though it's not a bad thing as even the best toe-in-the-water is not a very accurate temperature reading.... ;D
So, how does that work??? You just let it down 5-feet at a time...reel it up quickly to get the reading? Would seem to me the temp would be altered by the retrieval up through warmer waters near the surface.
Obviously, someone is looking after your optimal requirements for fishing. Another item for the tackle box. Have fun!
Jay
Sorry Hodgey for not getting back sooner, hard with the new job to get on as much as I used to. I have fished lake hunter. Over by the island I have caught lakers. I would usually fish anywhere from 60-120 ftw average. We are heading back up Canada Day week like we usually do. I'll let you know how and where we did well . Have a couple great trips
Quote from: T-Bone on June 18, 2019, 11:50:08 AM
Starting to worry me Hodgey...sometimes good 'ol intuition is better than applying technology to figure something out. May have to get you a hat with a propeller on it. Think of how many times you've pulled up a a spot that "looked good" and you caught fish. This has happened for us on Kipawa PLENTY of times.
I suppose in this case though it's not a bad thing as even the best toe-in-the-water is not a very accurate temperature reading.... ;D
So, how does that work??? You just let it down 5-feet at a time...reel it up quickly to get the reading? Would seem to me the temp would be altered by the retrieval up through warmer waters near the surface.
Ouch T....... Propeller hat, dang.
intuition = guessing/trial and error is best suited for when at home and not when time is as precious as it is in Kipawa.
I have been told by many of the experts here and elsewhere, that the thermocline is where to find good lake trout fishing. I am also being told that a good fishfinder will show you where the thermocline is, apparently mine is not a good one. I’ve made multiple adjustments over and over, and still do you not see what I am told I should see.
So, this little baby “Fishawk†takes all of the guesswork out. Why would a guy want to do that??? You slowly let it down attached to a downrigger, then slowly retrieve and bring to the surface. It documents the water temperature in the entire water column in 5 foot increments.
My hope this year, and keyword being hope, is to improve upon the limited success we had last year lake trout fishing. Being able to switch up, the daily ritual between getting up early for the early walleye bite and alternating with getting up when I want and trolling for lake trout. I have found that schedule to be extremely enjoyable. Not to mention this year I will have my older brother with me who has never been to Canada fishing. I am wanting his trip to be a great one and for this trip to become a regular thing for he and I, as we don’t get to see each other much being 1000 miles apart.
So, that’s my story. Go Fishawk- Go! ;D
Quote from: Jay Thomas on June 18, 2019, 11:50:42 AM
Obviously, someone is looking after your optimal requirements for fishing. Another item for the tackle box. Have fun!
Jay
Thanks Jay!
Just jabbing you Hodge...no offense intended...you do whatever you need to do. And if you're serious about fishing for lakers I know you want to know where that thermocline is located...
I have little need for that gizmo (though I do want to see how it works)...I'm only interested in the top, say....20-30 fow...that's where those pesky 'eyes are lurking....
Hodgey, I use my FISH HAWK for 2 purposes, 1 to check temperature and 2 to check depth. whether I'm using a Dipsy Diver, Deep Sixer, or a banana weight, I let out a given amount of line (100 feet ) using my line counter reel, I then snap the Fish Hawk on to my line, hit the start button, when it says READY, let it slide down the line. It will measure temperature at every 5 feet of depth as it slides down and store it in memory.When you retrieve it and hit the VIEW button it will display depth and temperature every 5 feet, keep scrolling until it stops, that will be your final depth. Say you have out 100 feet of line and the Fish Hawk says you are at 35 feet deep but you want to be 45 feet deep, this means that for every 10 feet of line you let out you are going down 3 1/2 feet. Therefor you need to let out 130 feet of line to get down to 45 feet for that set-up. I use the 100 feet of line for my initial measurement because it is easy to do the math without having to bring a calculator. If you're shooting for a specific temperature it is easier to make an educated guess at what depth your target temp is, based on temp change every 5 feet. Beats taking a WAG at it.
All this reminds me of Calculus in college...or maybe the Turbo Encabulator...sounds very similar....
https://youtu.be/Ac7G7xOG2Ag
Quote from: T-Bone on June 18, 2019, 02:30:08 PM
Just jabbing you Hodge...no offense intended...
None taken T.......but I will allow you to make amends by fetching me a beer when I pull into Au Bercail. ;)
Quote from: Captain Hali on June 18, 2019, 03:37:54 PM
Hodgey, I use my FISH HAWK for 2 purposes, 1 to check temperature and 2 to check depth.
That’s exactly what I’m looking for Captain, thanks for weighing in. My Lake trout freind tells me, 59.2*F is his sweet spot in Lake Erie. I will be giving it a go here in just 38 days. Cannot wait!
Hodgey, in my 50+ years of pursuing lakers I have read and heard that their preferred temperature is 48 to 54 degrees. However they will get out of that zone when actively feeding and their prey is in higher temperature waters. Check out the following link, make sure you read the foot notes under the second chart. http://thescientificfisherman.com/fish-species-preferred-temperatures/ Interesting that Ciscos and Whitefish have a preferred temp., 1 and 2 degrees higher than lake trout, which puts them LT's below their main prey.
Hodgey, one last thought on Lakers, they are notorious for following your offerings for long distances when not in active feeding mode. What can get them to strike is trolling in an "S " pattern every once in a while, so that the inside line slows down and drops a few feet and the outside line does the opposite. This will sometimes trigger a reaction strike. Or, if you are holding your rod in hand, let the rod back as far as you can then sweep it forward as fast and far as you can. Repeat this 3 or 4 times every couple of 100 yards. This has the same effect as doing " S " turns. I've fooled many Algonquin Park Lakers using these two tactics. Tight lines and enjoy PARADISE.
Quote from: Hodgey1 on June 18, 2019, 08:14:03 PM
None taken T.......but I will allow you to make amends by fetching me a beer when I pull into Au Bercail. ;)
Fair enough; but it's going to be a Bleue...not once of those 1/2 beer, 1/2 wine, 1/2 fruit juice things you drink in camp. ;D
Quote from: T-Bone on June 19, 2019, 08:41:30 AM
Fair enough; but it's going to be a Bleue...not once of those 1/2 beer, 1/2 wine, 1/2 fruit juice things you drink in camp. ;D
8) Wine is made from fruit, my beers are barley & Hops only buddy 8) But I will be very pleased to be sharing a Blue with you and the gang again in Canada!
I’ve received lots of good info here in this thread. Two more days till our departure to Alwaki. I’m hoping to improve my laker count, I will report back soon.
Well good luck Hodgey, I will be talking to you in camp and seeing how that little fishhawk works. You guys all have a safe drive up, I should be going through temiscaming about 7pm Friday night. See you in camp on Sat.
May catch us sitting out front of the Au Bercail about that time...then again we may be saddled-up to the bar at Temrose. Either way we'll see you Saturday.
What cabin are you in Ozzy?
The honeymoon suite I think lol. I asked Brian but he never did tell me. Just said to pull up at main dock and they will load my stuff on the 4 wheeler
Fishawk Update So a week at Kipawa with the Fishawk was interesting. Besides telling you the temperature at depths in 5’ increments, it also can be connected to a rigger ball to let you know it’s running depth. Though it has yet to prove magical for me, in catching Lakers, it like any tool, needs skill and technique to truly utilize its benefits.
If you read my resent trip report, you’ll see I struggled a bit with the Lakers. We had fun, but had some long trolls without a catch. One morning we were motoring into Hunters lake marking piles of fish in over a 100’ ftw. Most were suspended in 50 to 70’ ftw. I was headed to troll some structure, but saw all those fish and assumed they were Lakers, because of the depths and decided to troll through and see what would happen.... 2 hours later, not one fish on? We changed baits, we changed speeds, we changed colors, we prayed to the Laker Gods, to no avail! I even watched one of those fish on my finder, dive to the bottom as I assume it got hit or scared by a rigger ball coming through.
Oh well,,, we caught 6 and lost one, so not a terrible week. What I really want to relay was what the Fishawk recorded.
10’- 73.8
15’- 73.5
20’- 73.4
25’- 69.0
30’- 51.9
35’- 49.2
40’- 48.8
45’- 47.4
50’- 45.6
55’- 44.9
60’- 44.7
65’- 44.5
70’- 44.2
75’- 43.6
80’- 42.8
85’- 42.8
One thought Hodgey. You say you didn't do well - and I believe it says that in your trip report also - you say you hooked up 7 (ok you lost one) - we only tried 3 different days this years trip and didn't hook up that many. That is lake trout! Some days nothing!!! They are finicky. (Any day after a thunderstorm I have never caught a lakers - they just seem to shut down). That is lake trout trolling!
Maybe you have expectations of many more, I don't know - and by no means do I think I am an expert, some days I feel like a frustrated novice - I would love a couple hours in the boat with Smitty or Ozzy for some tutorials also - but overall, not sure how many hours you put in, but I think hooking up 7 is pretty decent.
Thanks for that Fishawk data Chris. What that data shows ever so clearly is where the thermocline was (between 25 and 30 feet).
Jay
That fishhawk data was pretty cool to see. The ripplin Redfin never caught anything for you? I was out last Sunday up at Big rideau about 1.5 hours from my house and he caught me a 69cm lake trout. That lure seems to be on fire this year.
I have fished Hunter's many times over the last 7 years. Hodgey….your 7 hookups is pretty good.
They are there....just not hungry, I guess.
@Jay Thomas- what exactly is a thermocline? btw I just took my Fish Hawk off my boat. duh!
17° difference in 5 feet.....why?
Quote from: limacharley on August 08, 2019, 11:29:41 AM
@Jay Thomas- what exactly is a thermocline? btw I just took my Fish Hawk off my boat. duh!
Hi limacharley,
From the internet
A thermocline is a section of lake water where the water temperature drops drastically across a small change in water depth. This occurs because warm, surface layers of water are much less dense than the cooler, deeper waters. Warm and cool waters separate due to their difference in density, so that the warm layer (called the epilimnion) is essentially perched on top of the cool water layer (the hypolimnion), with little mixing between the two. The thermocline is the relatively thin layer of water lying in between the warm epilimnion and cool hypolimnion, and in this region the water temperature drops rapidly with every foot of increasing depth. You may have actually seen the thermocline on your depthfinder, because the density change in the water here is strong enough to deflect sonar from today’s sensitive electronics.
Most of the time, during the middle of those hot summer days, the baitfish will stage in the layer directly above the thermocline layer due to the dissolved oxygen levels and cooler water.
Jay
Thanks Jay.
Quote from: Greg on August 07, 2019, 09:44:41 PM
but I think hooking up 7 is pretty decent.
@Greg , I'm pretty sure you maybe correct, that connecting with 7 is not bad. We fished "I think" 5 mornings for Lakers and part of one evening, so total hours trolling were probably 15hrs. That is about one fish every 2 hours or so. I need to lower my expectations some.
Quote from: Ozzy30 on August 08, 2019, 07:47:33 AM
That fishhawk data was pretty cool to see. The ripplin Redfin never caught anything for you? I was out last Sunday up at Big rideau about 1.5 hours from my house and he caught me a 69cm lake trout. That lure seems to be on fire this year.
By the way,
@Ozzy30 , that was way nice of you to hook me up and you left before I could thank you properly.
We did catch a couple of fish on the Ripplin as well as a Blueish colored Rapala. Like Lima and Greg mentioned, maybe I need to be more appreciative of what was being caught.
Ozzy, on a three hour troll at Kipawa for Lakers, what would you expect to catch and is the time of day critical?
Every lake and day is different. When I'm at home I fish early mornings or evenings just so I have time to get some work done. But when I'm up at Kipawa I only fish late morning and afternoon. This year was tougher but in our 2 trips we caught 4 lakers over the 65 cm mark. In all our other years it was nothing to average 30-45 lakers in a week with days over 10. This years first trip was only 12 keepers with 1 day getting skunked which has never happened before. Our 2nd trip I would say with 2 days fishing lakers with Mattie and T-bone we caught 7-8 lakers. I would think if it was a good year 6 lakers a day up at corbeau would be a good average day. Even the walleye were tougher than other years so we will just have to wait until next year and see how the fishing is.
Hodgey,
One laker for every 2 hours of trolling, I would consider above average. The many years spent trolling for lakers in Algonquin Park's Lake Opeongo we would average 1 laker for every 4 hours trolling. We fished exclusively for lakers averaging 8 to 10 hours per day. I suspect that the large schools you were marking could have been White fish, hence no action.
So last night I see there's a new post on this thread so I check it out before going to Hodgeys trip report, which I haven't checked yet. Loved the fish hawk readings, basically confirmed what I already knew just from seeing the thermocline on sonar. So I type up a fairly long response, including comments on the open water marks. Well I go to get a fresh beer and when I come back my darn Firefox has crashed and reset to a new tab, Arrggg was I ever ticked. Restore session didn't save it. A couple of other forums I'm on have an auto save feature so I don't lose my response.
Many of those comments have now been covered but I still have some. To start with admin should sticky that chart.
Hodgey I remember the same thing happening to me way back, seen some good marks in open water, so changed plans and caught nothing. After that it was only if they were associated with good bait clouds and big hooks, otherwise I'm sticking to my structure related runs, even when exploring. You know what they say about changing courses in mid stream lol. Also about assuming hehehe. I agree with Captain Hali too, wouldn't surprise me if those marks were Whitefish. I've caught a few over the years on a gang troll but not many.
It's hard to comment accurately on your success rate without knowing the actual hours spent trolling, even when and where and how. Lake trout was always our main target by a long shot so that's how I learned, dragging a gang troll and a minnow. I go back to the early 80's without sonar even and for me at Kipawa if you didn't catch or a least get good hits your 2 fish a day it was slow. I'm with Ozzy. "Back then" it was normal to have anywhere from a few up to 15 boats on a long weekend trolling Corbeau for trout, and plenty of fish being caught trolling right up the middle. The amount of baitfish schools was more than anywhere else too. Makes sense, it is the hub of the whole system.
Cheers
Thanks
@smitty55 for your continued Laker help.
I am curious about Gulp Minnows. Since real and dead minnows are not allowed in Kipawa, has anyone found the Gulp minnow to be successful when fishing for Lakers or are they illegal also?
I tried the gulp minnows with no success - and I have tried other plastics (5 inch long minnow or flute like products) and I found they just moved down the hook and bent and curled all up and looked horribly unreal (lots of water pressure & drag trolling them that low). After an hour of trolling and you reel them up to check them and it felt like we just wasted an hour of time and gas.
Unfortunately (I say that because I miss the fun of catching and freezing and using minnows right from the lake) I feel like we have to stick to spoons now. That's what I have used the past 3 years and we don't get as many as we used to, but it works.
If somebody has a recommendation or has a suggestion (other than spoons), I am all ears also.
Quote from: Greg on August 13, 2019, 08:21:38 AM
I tried the gulp minnows with no success - and I have tried other plastics (5 inch long minnow or flute like products) and I found they just moved down the hook and bent and curled all up and looked horribly unreal (lots of water pressure & drag trolling them that low). After an hour of trolling and you reel them up to check them and it felt like we just wasted an hour of time and gas. Unfortunately (I say that because I miss the fun of catching and freezing and using minnows right from the lake) I feel like we have to stick to spoons now. That's what I have used the past 3 years and we don't get as many as we used to, but it works. If somebody has a recommendation or has a suggestion (other than spoons), I am all ears also.
Many charter boat captains on the great lakes use Spin N Glo's for lake trout. There's many YouTube videos available. So I'm going to give Spin N Glo's a try this year.
Jay
Hodgey1, I have seen several videos of guides jigging for Lakers on Lake Opeongo in Algonquin Park with great success using white tube jigs and white twister tail grubs like Mr. Twister. It's definitely worth a try if you want to try something different. If you do have a go at it, let us know what results you have.
I use the worden wobblers or wobble glo on this website. Same thing just the worden wobbler is complete setup with hook. I always just cut off the hooks and retied.
http://www.yakimabait.com/products/wobble-glo/
This is what I use on my dipsey diver's, Mattie and T-bone can backup the success of this device. Strangest looking setup but catches lots of good fish. This is what the laker hit when Mattie hip checked my wife. lol
Quote from: Hodgey1 on August 13, 2019, 07:29:20 AM
Thanks @smitty55 for your continued Laker help.
I am curious about Gulp Minnows. Since real and dead minnows are not allowed in Kipawa, has anyone found the Gulp minnow to be successful when fishing for Lakers or are they illegal also?
Hodgey I should have saved my messages to you as sometimes I'm not sure if I mentioned something or not. As for the gulp minnows they have worked for me behind the gang troll but instead of threading them on the leader I just lip hooked two of them on the treble hook and it tracked real good with no spinning.
Greg what I've always done for a long time and even with live minnows in Ontario is after threading the minnow on through the vent and out the mouth I take the needle up under the chin and up through just behind the lips. This creates a loop in the line that keeps the mouth closed and keeps the tension on the front of the bait which prevents the minnow/bait from curling up and spinning. I always use those fine needles that come with the gorge hook packages as the don't make as big a hole.
Cheers
@smitty55 - Great idea - thx - if I ever use them again, Ill give it a try.
Greg
Quote from: Hodgey1 on August 07, 2019, 09:24:24 PM
Fishawk Update
We caught 6 and lost one, so not a terrible week. What I really want to relay was what the Fishawk recorded.
10’- 73.8
15’- 73.5
20’- 73.4
25’- 69.0
30’- 51.9
35’- 49.2
40’- 48.8
45’- 47.4
50’- 45.6
55’- 44.9
60’- 44.7
65’- 44.5
70’- 44.2
75’- 43.6
80’- 42.8
85’- 42.8
I have just returned from another week in Paradise. We did some Laker fishing with limited success. Our total number of fish landed, was only three fish with one lost, in four outings. I will be reading up over the winter to be better prepared for next July.
As you will see below, I think the water temps had them way deeper than in July. We started running lures at 35-40' with no sucess and ultimately moved down to 55-60' once I had mapped an area with my Garmin Quickdraw and felt comfortable.
Here is Sept temp readings of the water column:
0'- 66.6
5'- 67.1
10'- 67.1
15'- 67.1
20'- 67.1
25'- 66.9
30'- 66.6
35'- 62.2
40'- 52.9
45'- 49.0
50'- 47.7
55'- 46.0
60'- 45.5
65'- 45.0
70'- 44.7
75'- 45.0
80'- 44.4
85'- 43.9
90'- 43.4
95'- 43.2
Hodgey1
Nice recording.
The 40 foot mark would have been the starting point ( my opinion only)
Now that you have an I-Pilot, I would study up on vertical jigging for Lake Trout.
I have been doing that in Ontario for two years now with excellent success.
Up at 3Seasons Camp area, we have a lot of deep water full of Lakers.
There is one particular spot that everybody anchors and jig for them with excellent success.
One couple in camp recorded a 60 fish day jigging.
Get yourself a few lures called the Vibrato . You basically hit the bottom with them while jigging.
Get some white swim baits ( Swammers)
If you mark a fish looking at your swammer, you slowly start reeling it up and hold on. It will chase the bait up and slam it.
Other lures would be anything silver that can be vertically jigged.
My best day this year on my Ontario lake was 20 Lake Trout in four hours ranging from 8 pounds to 18 pounds.
Quote from: RHYBAK on September 10, 2019, 10:08:33 AM
Get yourself a few lures called the Vibrato . You basically hit the bottom with them while jigging.
Get some white swim baits ( Swammers)
If you mark a fish looking at your swammer, you slowly start reeling it up and hold on. It will chase the bait up and slam it.
So, to be clear, does this mean your fishing these vibrato and swammer swim baits essentially "on the bottom"??? I always thought lakers suspend most of the time...
Lakers are attracted to bait feeding near bottom most of the time.
If they see something stirring up the bottom, they get curious and come in to inspect.
Most of the time I keep my Swammer suspended about five feet off bottom.
When the laker comes in, I force it to give chase.
Most Lakers swim close to the bottom althought when trolling, I target the suspended lakers.
I find the big brutes stay near bottom
Rhybak what size swammer are you using? The 4" or 5.5". Which colors do you find work the best and how are you hooking them? I have been wanting to try the jigging around home but usually just find it easier to sit back with my feet up trolling.
Thanks
Ditto what Ozzy30 said.
Jay
Do you mean Sebile Vibrato ,if yes you add a swammer at one end ,do you drift while jigging kind or slow troll i'm sure you can't anchor that deep,thanks.
The Vibrato is jigged bare.
In Muskoka, I use the 5.5" Swammers in pearl white hooked onto a 3/4 oz. jig head ( any kind)
The whiter the better.
On Kipawa, I would use the 4" swammer since the trout are much smaller.
I , personally do not drift.
I have an I-Pilot on the front of the boat which serves as my anchor.
Quote from: RHYBAK on September 11, 2019, 07:54:33 AM
The Vibrato is jigged bare.
In Muskoka, I use the 5.5" Swammers in pearl white hooked onto a 3/4 oz. jig head ( any kind)
The whiter the better.
On Kipawa, I would use the 4" swammer since the trout are much smaller.
I , personally do not drift.
I have an I-Pilot on the front of the boat which serves as my anchor.
Thanks.
Jay
Thanks, I may just have to try that out Sat. morning. Thanks
Quote from: RHYBAK on September 11, 2019, 07:54:33 AM
The Vibrato is jigged bare.
In Muskoka, I use the 5.5" Swammers in pearl white hooked onto a 3/4 oz. jig head ( any kind)
The whiter the better.
On Kipawa, I would use the 4" swammer since the trout are much smaller.
So the swammer is a rubber bodied bait used on a jig head?
Correct
What would a preferred rod, reel and line set-up look like for this type of jigging? Level wind?
I use the same rod as I use for Walleye
Better fight
No need for more rods
Quote from: RHYBAK on September 11, 2019, 03:09:56 PM
I use the same rod as I use for Walleye
Better fight
No need for more rods
@RHYBAK , 2020 is the year I try jigging for Trout at Kipawa. I'm going to be hitting you up for tips.
143 and 185
Quote from: Hodgey1 on March 03, 2020, 12:29:04 PM
Quote from: RHYBAK on September 11, 2019, 03:09:56 PM
I use the same rod as I use for Walleye
Better fight
No need for more rods
@RHYBAK , 2020 is the year I try jigging for Trout at Kipawa. I'm going to be hitting you up for tips.
143 and 185
Hodgey1 just drive up to my house and I'll take you out for a day
If u pass on that Hodge ur making a mistake. Can make it from ur house in 4 hours. You can teach me that sage advice then in July. ::)
Quote from: T-Bone on March 04, 2020, 09:47:09 PM
If u pass on that Hodge ur making a mistake. Can make it from ur house in 4 hours. You can teach me that sage advice then in July. ::)
I moved in on that offer swiftly! 8)
Hey guys hope all is safe and healthy with everyone. I just wanted to say I spent alot of time jigging lakers this winter using my hummingbird flasher and am completely hooked. You can actually see the laker come on the screen and chase your lure up and down. If he wouldn't take it I would reel as fast as I could away from him and watch him chase it up to 10 feet under the ice until he hit it. I am hooked. My issue is how to use the flasher this summer because without watching it happen on electronics takes the fun out of it. Some guys fishing with me are using normal fish finders with winter transducers and you can see the action just not as clearly as the flasher. Anyone else ice fish with electronics?
Ozzy,
My friends and I are huge fans of fishing Lakers using the same method you mentioned, we hit a local large heavy using that same technique ( when it freezes that is) . We will utilize soft baits, Swedish pimples and tubes. There is nothing cooler than seeing that chase happen and the hit as the lure comes up. We've thought about trying the same technique on our trips up to Canada but haven't really gone full bore on it. Not sure if using the fish finder would work as well as the flashers that we use? Maybe someone else uses this same method and can answer that question?
Rhybak, I’m going to need schooled on jigging for trout if I’m able to make my trip in July. I’m very disappointed that the border closure kept me from the Rhybak school of trout jigging.