Trolling for Eyes

[Hodgey1]

This July will be my fifth trip to Kipawa in the last three years. I fell in love with the lake the first time I came here and hope to continue that tradition and someday bring my grandchildren. It has actually caused a pretty big life style shift. I bought a boat and now focus more of my vacation time on going to Kipawa twice a year. I am particularly looking forward to this year‘s trip because my brother who lives in Alabama is coming. I don’t get to see him very often and can’t wait for him to see and experience Kipawa.

Some of you may remember my trip report from our first time at Kipawa & Alwaki. That trip was a mix of my son-in-law and close family members of mine from New Jersey. My post trip enthusiasm that year was not shared by my  Nj family, mostly due to their lack of fishing sucsess. My son-in law and I on the other hand, had great fishing sucessess. We put to use the recommendation I learned here. Most suggested jigging with a leech or a worm and get out there early in the day and later in the afternoon and relax in between. We tried to explain our success and give them tips, but they seemed reluctant to use the live bait, I believe due to the Eww factor.........? I didn’t think that they would ever come back, which was all right with me, since I thoroughly enjoyed myself. 

So fast forward to this season, when I get a phone call from my NJ uncle asking, if he could go again this year? I was more than a little bit shocked to say the least, but couldn’t say no, since it is my uncle. His previous Canadian fishing experience was many trips over the years with his late brother and others, further north and east to the reservoir Gouin. I believe that their experience at the Gouin was a lot of pike fishing and a few walleye while mostly trolling or casting crank baits. I had only been there once with both my uncles and do not remember catching many fish, but that was long ago. My most vivid memory of the Gouin, was the water being near black in color. I would really like them to catch more fish this year. They seem to only want to troll and didn’t ever catch many at Kipawa doing so. I have seen here on the board that many of you also like to troll and seem to do very well.

I am seeking input from all of you, as to how to steer them in the proper direction as I’m a complete newb to all things trolling. We will be there the end of July for a week, my experience has been that the walleye are in 25 to 35 feet of water that time of year. I need recommendations to get them catching walleye trolling. Including what lures to use, techniques, depths to target and areas of the lake they should focus on, knowing that we’re going to be at Alwaki.

Sorry for being so long-winded but I needed to set up my question so it made sense to everyone here on the board. All of you have been amazingly helpful to me and have poured lots of information, time and maps to help me become a better fisherman at Kipawa. All of that help is greatly appreciated and I hope to pay it forward some day.

[BH]

, here are some lures to consider in addition to the simple harness and spinner (small blades to get deeper).  Good luck!

[crackers42]

hodgey,

Some may not like this response but it is coming from years of experience and continued success.

The only time of year you really should concentrate on anything more then 20 feet is opener until about now.  For instance when I come up this Friday until sept long weekend I will mostly fish in 10 feet of water ( next week 5 to 8 feet).

What you are seeing on the graph at 35 feet in July is a mix bag and mostly small fish at that

If they want success both numbers and size trolling with worm harness and 3/8 ounce rubber sinker 24 to 36 inches up from the hook is all you need.  Do not bother with a bottom bouncer as walleye spook and this will only agitate them.

Jigging other then opener is a waste of time if you are looking for both size and numbers.

I wouldn’t bother with plugs/spoons: bucktails unless you are going after lake trout or pike

Now that being said the waters down my way are a lot more productive for walleye then past butney towards Kipawa due to the warmer water and more structure

Worm harness ( solid colours flash on a bright day dark on a dark day) quality bait and when you tie your own use Fluro line

Although numbers are great we also catch numerous 5 to 13 pound fish all year long in some of the shallowest water possible

[smitty55]

hodgey,

Do not bother with a bottom bouncer as walleye spook and this will only agitate them.

Jigging other then opener is a waste of time if you are looking for both size and numbers.

Crackers I agree with you on many points, specially the shallower water. Mind you more of my Walleye fishing was evenings into dark, sometimes anchored and tossing jigs or a slipfloat, or else barely moving along with the electric and "trolling"  And if we decide to daytime troll there will always likely be one line with a worm harness for a start, but the other line has to use a lure that still runs well at the same speed. I happen to like Canadian Wigglers since I was a kid, they need to run faster than a harness. I've seen plenty of posts here about good success with Hot N Tots too.

The last Pickeral that came into my boat up there was 7lb, drifting side ways along a wind swept shoreline that had finally died down towards Red Pine, and controlling the depth with the electric. We were dragging bottom bouncers with home made 40" spinner rigs. They were perfect for keeping with bottom contact and following the structure far better than straight trolling ever could. I've always found them them to be effective up there, sometimes stirring up the bottom is a good thing too.

As for saying jigging is a waste of time, well you jest may be a bit crackers there lad lol, I don't care what time of year it is. My best ever Walleye was caught up along the top end of Corbeau  I would say that by far most of the fish reported here on all the trip reports were caught with a jig, it pretty well works for Walleye anywhere. Sure there are other methods, they have their place too at times of course.

Cheers

[puckster_guy]

 I like BH's selection and it's a good start. My boat lived on Georgian Bay in Waubaushene. I'd travel from there to Midland to Honey Harbour, and I'd troll all points in between. It was always far too windy to still fish. My habits learned there carried over to Kipawa. Bigger lures often translate to bigger fish. My go yo is the Ripplin Redfin. Chrome for bright days and white shad for darker days. After that large jointed Rapala's. I've had luck with a 6 incher in perch or white. All in 8 to 15 fow. Depending on the depth the lure will settle in. Nobody talks of it here but I will cross the lake flatlining a deeper diving crank down to 25ft. No structure required, just a brew in one hand and a cigar in the other. I have netted many bigger walleyes and pike and the occasional laker. Just like the guys in L. Erie. I think there's a population of walleyes cruising the depths unmolested and looking for lures. I've had zero luck with banana baits but deep shad raps in white and chrome and perch work well. Don't be afraid to go outside the box, there are bigger rewards there.

[NortonJoe]

@Hodgey1 we fish on Lac Watson which is just east of Kipawa.  We also enjoy trolling for walleye and have had success over the years doing so.  During the summer, we generally fish a bit shallower...maybe around 15 FOW (also look for structure like shoals and drop-offs etc).  If you are using live bait, a worm and a spinner with a little weight or a crawler harness should do it.  If using lures, we swear by Hot n' Tots in silver, gold or metallic blue.  Honestly, I think it has more to do with the color than the actual lure although we've caught them on nearly every color. Troll just fast enough to get the lure to dive and so you can feel the ticking of the lure at the end of the pole.  If casting for northern pike during the afternoon, any flashy spoon will do.  Just get into a bay with some weeds or a fallen tree, cast it near the edge of the weeds or slightly into them and work it back to the boat. I concur that the best time of day for walleye is morning or evening, that's why we fill midday with pike casting.

[MikeFromTheSouth]

I have found that certain lure colors are always successful spring thru fall (silver and black) but there are different lures and color combinations that can be successful if your timing is right.  I have done the throw everything in the tackle box in the lake method before and honestly I have caught one or two fish on just about everything I have tried.  I would not spend the whole day using them but I just wanted to see what would happen.  For this past trip we only used 6 different baits of which 4 are pictured here.  I could not find a picture of the two gold and black lures we used on the over cast days but in all honesty the Cotton Cordell Big O way out produced the other hard bait lures in all weather conditions.  The chartreus jig was the only color we used and it of course outperformed everything else used this trip.



Presentation is key to any of the baits.  The Yo Zuri baits needed a slightly faster troll than the Cotton Cordell Big O to get a nice action.  All swam at depths around 5-7ft.  I also like to put out a lot of line as to make sure that they are not swimming through the prop wash in any way.  Typically you see guys cast a trolling lure out and close the bail right away or maybe let it sit a few seconds before doing so.  I cast it out as far as I can then get the line tight and then let out about another 20-30 yards depending on how straight the troll is going to be. This works for me but may not be ok if other boats are around trolling close.

The last time I was up in the late August on the main lake we trolled pretty much down the middle between Edwards Narrows through Butney and back and every troll we caught either a walleye or lake trout without fail on the Yo Zuri and Cotton Cordell style lures.  Granted those are pretty long trolls of several miles long.  Water depth goes from 12'-160' along the way but we are not hitting any real structure on purpose and just finding that the fish were suspended below the surface out in the open probably chasing moving bait fish groups.  This only worked morning and evening.  The middle of the day is for exploring and doing things other than fishing on all my trips recently as in the past we never caught enough fish other than pike to make the effort worth it.

Regards

[Greg]

Lots of great responses already I totally agree with (NortonJoe and Mike) - go shallow (less than 15 feet along any shore) - zig/zag in and out. Use chrome with blue or anything which will reflect the early morning or late evening sun rays.  Put lots of line out and try to stay around 2km to 3km per hour.

Be patient and enjoy a cold beverage!

[T-Bone]

If they want success both numbers and size trolling with worm harness and 3/8 ounce rubber sinker 24 to 36 inches up from the hook is all you need.  Do not bother with a bottom bouncer as walleye spook and this will only agitate them.

Jigging other then opener is a waste of time if you are looking for both size and numbers.

OK Crackers...I can't be sure as I don't know much, but I would guess what you're saying is true for where YOU are fishing. Again, I don't wholly know...have only fished down there a handful of times. I do know this though; I've caught thousands of walleyes jigging the central area of Kipawa in June and July. I've only witnessed a handful of walleyes caught trolling in the central area of Kipawa. Dragging a crawler harness around where we fish would be almost impossible in most of the areas that concentrate 'eyes. Way too rocky...if not littered with stumps and logs.

I believe what you say is true, but again, for THAT area of the lake. What works up around Taggart Bay would never work around Alwaki. I'm just saying I don't think we can paint what would be successful in this or that area with a broad brush.

I'm on board that the fish do get shallow, even in mid-summer. I recall one evening on Lac Audoin catching a walleye on every cast of a light jig and tail...they were sitting in 3 fow or less. Amazing.

[crackers42]

To be clear I was merely answering the question around how to enhance both numbers and quality of fish and yes that end of the lake is substantially different

Take it for what you will but I know this end of the lake trolling over jigging will be night and day

I for example will take 20 fish in a night 2 to 5 pounds over sorting through 50

Trolling is much much easier for a beginner also looking to catch fish

Jigging for fish in warm water when they are less active would be tougher for a beginner to get the hang of and they may loose interest 

[Hodgey1]

Lots and lots of great input. Thanks All! I’m definitely not wanting a jig vs trolling debate. Let’s  all hug for a moment............ I just want my trolling Uncle to catch plenty of fish to hopefully get him wanting to return. I see reasons and benefits of both.

So there seems to be a pretty solid consensus from the group that trolling in shallower water in Late July can be productive or is productive. Is 15-20’ a good target?

[BH]

We are up normally the third week of July and 18 - 20 feet is normally the depth for the evening bite and trolling during the day.  Challenging to make the early bite at times based on how long the camp fire was the previous night.

[Hodgey1]

We are up normally the third week of July and 18 - 20 feet is normally the depth for the evening bite and trolling during the day.  Challenging to make the early bite at times based on how long the camp fire was the previous night.

Thanks BH for depth input. And boy can I relate to the challenge of the early bite. Last trip I made with the boys, we were up early everyday but found sitting on the the porch with coffee, looking at the the lake way too enjoyable. We then ended up trolling for Lakers until lunch most days, due to missing the early walleye bite. Made for a relaxing balance of both fishing and chillin’ . I plan on doing the same this trip. Can’t wait! 51 days.

[T-Bone]

Let’s  all hug for a moment............

There was no intent to spark a debate, just stating an observation. And let's call it what it is...I loathe trolling. If presented a situation where I HAD to troll to catch fish, I'd find another lake. I"m confident Crackers is telling it as he sees it also...again just an alternative perspective.

Let's see...

Trolling = Watching Paint Dry
Trolling = Watching Grass Grow
Trolling = Watching Non-Playoff NBA Games

I think you get my position...

50...

[Hodgey1]

I have never used a worm harness. Just as some background of my fishing experience, I grew up fishing a massive pond next door as a kid. My gear was a Garcia 300 with a bail that would never trip on its own, a rod missing the tip, Kmart brand 25lb test line and a mister twisters missing part of its tail. I caught many fish including a 39" Northern Pike on that honey of a setup. I moved after graduating and only fished remote streams in PA for trout throughout my years. There was a very short stretch before marriage and kids that my dad had a boat and we would troll Lake Erie, but he had a way of worrying about spilled beer dirtying the boat that made it no fun. I grew up idolizing my late uncle, whom made annual treks to the Gouin, he more than anyone stirred my love of all things outdoors. Boy do I miss him...….. His brother is who I'm trying to help this year trolling at Kipawa

Kipawa is my first real push into exploring fishing past anything beyond the pond and streams of 40 years ago. I am learning a lot and enjoying the ride but still green. Here's a couple more questions

• Worm harness appears to be pretty straight forward, line, a blade with a couple of hooks on it. When I look at Bass Pro they have two sizes, #3 & #4. I assume this is the hook size. Which is preferred?
• Crackers mentioned a rubber weight. Is that to just get it lower in the water column as you troll or is it intended to drag bottom while trolling?
• How much line is typical let out? I do have level wind reels with counters.  wow, I guess my tackle has improved